i have been using MX-1000 now for 27.4 hours on my 2006 YZ250F. it has been in a muddy enduro and several hare scrambles. as well as many hours of mega dusty practice sessions. so far the oem rear aluminum sprocket has held up 3 times longer than the last one. i am using a DID X-ring chain.
Motorcycle Chains!
- Thread starter Wes Woodin
- Start date
- Status
i use my old fork oil.
i change my synthetic fork oil every year in my harley, comes out like new. i mix it with some teflon that i bought pre bitog, put it in an oil can and dribble it on every couple of weeks
so far, 22,000 kms, X ring chain, only an initial chain adjustment
makes me feel good recycling my old oil, prolly better than some of the chain lubes out there
i change my synthetic fork oil every year in my harley, comes out like new. i mix it with some teflon that i bought pre bitog, put it in an oil can and dribble it on every couple of weeks
so far, 22,000 kms, X ring chain, only an initial chain adjustment
makes me feel good recycling my old oil, prolly better than some of the chain lubes out there
Good idea Castor. My dad used to think he was recycling his old oil by using it to kill weeds in the yard. Your way is better.
all the dry film and grease/oil in the world wont match wd40 and a good oring chain.
I got over 60,000km out of original fitment chain on my ZX6. It didn't need replacing either but I thought I better.
Lubed it withwhatever was available including lanoline,Castrol,Shell,Bp chain Lube. Washed it now and agin with kero based degreaser and a hose, spray with WD40.
Idea is to keep it reasonably clean, o rings and rollers lubed.
Dirtbike chains are another matter
Lubed it withwhatever was available including lanoline,Castrol,Shell,Bp chain Lube. Washed it now and agin with kero based degreaser and a hose, spray with WD40.
Idea is to keep it reasonably clean, o rings and rollers lubed.
Dirtbike chains are another matter
Yo boys, Master is right about o-ring chains and WD-40. O-ring chains have the lubricant "sealed" into the rollers and pins with the o-rings. An o-ring chain is designed to seal in the lube and the dirt out. Using WD-40 is the only thing you can do to it because no lubricant will get into the pins and rollers anyway. All you need to do is keep the corrosion off the side plates. BUT, I understand most racers don't use o-ring chains because of the extra friction and power-robbing they cause and so most MX racers run non-o-ring chains and so the whole lubrication thing is in play.
The grease is sealed in with the o rings, and the integrety of the o rings is important. WD40 can help keep them clean and pliable. BUT, as the chain ages and the orings start to lose their seal the viscosity of the grease in the rollers will still stay put. At this point dousing them with a penetrating type spray can creep in and dilute or solve the grease making it able to squeeze out. So they idea is just use the wd40 to clean the chain and wet the o rings, not to juice it. Also even though the chain rollers are sealed grease you still need something for the sprocket roller contact to help with wear. This is where I like the dry film lubes.
That makes sense and I agree about the sprocket-roller contact, but if the integrity of the o-rings is in question, then the chain is toast, and modern x-ring chains won't allow even penetrating oil to get in. The sprocket wear is only excessive if the chain is stretched beyond its specifications and no longer fits down in the sprocket. Otherwise sprocket-roller wear is minimal. If you don't believe me, press one apart after oiling it with WD-40, I have...nothing. But I don't think the dry lube can hurt anything because it doesn't attract dirt and any lubrication on the rollers would help. What type of dry lube do you use?
Ummm....
The rollers DON'T have sealed grease in them. The rollers you can turn by hand and move side to side. Some say these don't roll, but then why have rollers?
Therefore by lubing the chain, these rollers not only get it but the 0,X or U ring as well.
I'm still running the original back sprocket on the ZX6 after 73000km. The reason I changed the chain was after replacing the gearbox sprocket and getting tight spots, I thought the chain was stretched. It was in fact the gearbox sprocket spinning off centre (center). I am sure that I could have got many more miles out of that chain.
Lanoline on the dirt bike chain when the ride is wet or WD40 when it is dry.
The rollers DON'T have sealed grease in them. The rollers you can turn by hand and move side to side. Some say these don't roll, but then why have rollers?
Therefore by lubing the chain, these rollers not only get it but the 0,X or U ring as well.
I'm still running the original back sprocket on the ZX6 after 73000km. The reason I changed the chain was after replacing the gearbox sprocket and getting tight spots, I thought the chain was stretched. It was in fact the gearbox sprocket spinning off centre (center). I am sure that I could have got many more miles out of that chain.
Lanoline on the dirt bike chain when the ride is wet or WD40 when it is dry.
Ring chains are only provided lubrication at the pin/bushing friction point. The roller/bushing and roller/sprocket tooth areas need lubrication as well.
As do the sealing rings themselves.
All those who feel that a ring chain is maintenace free and completely lubricated from the factory are simply misinformed, or can't read. Go to ANY chain mfg site and see what they say about the lubrication recommendations of their ring chains. Is there one who says they they do not need to be lubricated?
If you can't find a mfg who says that their ring chain needs no lubrication, then it would be pretty easy to conclude that you may not be quite as informed as you thought you were.
And those who think that the elastomer rings can keep penetrants out are simply mistaken. WD-40 has little to no lubricating qualities, yet folks seem to think it is the holy grail of chain lube. And, as mentioned, when a ring is cracked or torn, WD-40 will do nothing but help the lubricant to become softened, making it easier for it to leave the area.
Using a penetrant that ius fortified with barrier lubricants would be a much better situation for when the rings fail. And they will fail.
I see so many anecdotes of folks who swear by their ring chain...of course they seem to have problems with their sprocket teeth deforming...but that has to be due to the cheapo sprockets they were using, yes?
NO...as also mentioned, a sprocket will stay intact as long as the pitch of the chain is within specs.
I have also, on several occasions, had the opportunity to have this conversation while having the items available for inspection. It never fails...whenever I have a disscussion with a foaming-at-the-mouth ring chain/WD-40 advocate, all I do is ask them to remove the chain and inspect it. Without fail there will be one or more (usually more) sections of their ring chain that is kinked up and will not flow as well as the rest of the chain. Why is this? Because they have violated rings in that one or more section...which has allowed the lubricant to come out, and grit/water to come in. Sure, the other sections of the chain may well be in spec., but it is that one bad section that will eventually pass it's mismatched pitch along to the sprocket teeth..ALL of the sprocket teeth, and will eventually wear out a good set of sprockets.
Most times folks come away with quite a bit different feeling about the value of a ring chain.
Folks have misconceptions about sealing ring chains.
They have their place...which is when you ride in adverse conditions...but they are quite a bit more "high-maintenace" items than a standard roller chain is.
Folks who feel they require less maintenance, are only kidding themselves.
As do the sealing rings themselves.
All those who feel that a ring chain is maintenace free and completely lubricated from the factory are simply misinformed, or can't read. Go to ANY chain mfg site and see what they say about the lubrication recommendations of their ring chains. Is there one who says they they do not need to be lubricated?
If you can't find a mfg who says that their ring chain needs no lubrication, then it would be pretty easy to conclude that you may not be quite as informed as you thought you were.
And those who think that the elastomer rings can keep penetrants out are simply mistaken. WD-40 has little to no lubricating qualities, yet folks seem to think it is the holy grail of chain lube. And, as mentioned, when a ring is cracked or torn, WD-40 will do nothing but help the lubricant to become softened, making it easier for it to leave the area.
Using a penetrant that ius fortified with barrier lubricants would be a much better situation for when the rings fail. And they will fail.
I see so many anecdotes of folks who swear by their ring chain...of course they seem to have problems with their sprocket teeth deforming...but that has to be due to the cheapo sprockets they were using, yes?
NO...as also mentioned, a sprocket will stay intact as long as the pitch of the chain is within specs.
I have also, on several occasions, had the opportunity to have this conversation while having the items available for inspection. It never fails...whenever I have a disscussion with a foaming-at-the-mouth ring chain/WD-40 advocate, all I do is ask them to remove the chain and inspect it. Without fail there will be one or more (usually more) sections of their ring chain that is kinked up and will not flow as well as the rest of the chain. Why is this? Because they have violated rings in that one or more section...which has allowed the lubricant to come out, and grit/water to come in. Sure, the other sections of the chain may well be in spec., but it is that one bad section that will eventually pass it's mismatched pitch along to the sprocket teeth..ALL of the sprocket teeth, and will eventually wear out a good set of sprockets.
Most times folks come away with quite a bit different feeling about the value of a ring chain.
Folks have misconceptions about sealing ring chains.
They have their place...which is when you ride in adverse conditions...but they are quite a bit more "high-maintenace" items than a standard roller chain is.
Folks who feel they require less maintenance, are only kidding themselves.
um, yeah, what jay said.
WD-40, is Water Displacer 40th try. it works well at shedding the water from a chain that has just been washed (intentional or non). once that is dry, a good dry film lube can be used (like say MX-1000) and you can get some serious mileage out a chain that normally would not hold up.
WD-40, is Water Displacer 40th try. it works well at shedding the water from a chain that has just been washed (intentional or non). once that is dry, a good dry film lube can be used (like say MX-1000) and you can get some serious mileage out a chain that normally would not hold up.
+1 on dry-lube. I use a dry molybdenum di-sulfide lube (Dri-Slide) on my chain and it looks and feels like new after 10k. Clean the chain w/ Simple Green at wash time, a little WD40 to dry and them moly lube. http://www.russack.com/
Drew
Drew
Been using the Dupont teflon/moly dri lube.
DuPont makes a teflon rich dry-film for Finishline, called Performance Lubricant Spray, and it may well contain some MoS2. The Dry-film wax spray on the shelves at WalMart does not contain moly, and if you read close, the only chain application that DuPont advocates for use with this product is bicycle chains. The recommendations of this product reads very similar to what WD-40's does. (very similar save for the Teflon and wax content)
The product is a good one, however it is not a heavy duty type lubricant. It also does not, by design, penetrate. It is desinged to immediately set up and create a barrier, which is fine for protection from the elements...but you really need to get the lube where it needs to go before the hardening begins. Specifically into the pin/bushing area.
But of all the wax chain lubes, it is probably the less gooey of them all.
Ring chain users should be fine with it.
Drew,
You will not go wrong using Mr. Russacks product. He has some very fine folks blending his products for him.
The product is a good one, however it is not a heavy duty type lubricant. It also does not, by design, penetrate. It is desinged to immediately set up and create a barrier, which is fine for protection from the elements...but you really need to get the lube where it needs to go before the hardening begins. Specifically into the pin/bushing area.
But of all the wax chain lubes, it is probably the less gooey of them all.
Ring chain users should be fine with it.
Drew,
You will not go wrong using Mr. Russacks product. He has some very fine folks blending his products for him.
The dry stuff I've been using is labeled "Dupont Teflon multi-use lubricant". The label states flouropolymer (teflon) and organic molybdemum. It sprays thin and penetrates well. Not saying it's the best product ever, but it has worked well for me (in may applications). Good enough I stocked up on it in case Lowes quit stocking it.
To each their own but I wouldn't use simple green to clean a chain. It's a base (caustic) and could be hard on the orings.
To each their own but I wouldn't use simple green to clean a chain. It's a base (caustic) and could be hard on the orings.
jaybird, my hat's off to you for the concise and factual answers which you provide re chains and their lubrication
with that in mind, what type of primary chain lubrication or lubricant would you recommend for a 1992 fatboy harley davidson with 60,000 miles on it
the bike is in VERY good condition with me being the only owner. i have normally used a 15w50 mineral or synthetic and changed it at 2-300 miles. it has only been adjusted a few times in its life and has plenty of adjustment left
t/y in advance
with that in mind, what type of primary chain lubrication or lubricant would you recommend for a 1992 fatboy harley davidson with 60,000 miles on it
the bike is in VERY good condition with me being the only owner. i have normally used a 15w50 mineral or synthetic and changed it at 2-300 miles. it has only been adjusted a few times in its life and has plenty of adjustment left
t/y in advance
chains dont need lube where the roller and pin or roller and sprocket touch.
think of a locomotive. its got metal wheels and runs on a metal track. obviously they dont grease the track. why dont locomotives wear out wheels every hundred miles? because the wheel ROLL on the track just like the roller on a chain ROLLS into and outof the sprocket. locomotive wheels and chains/sprkcets dont have sliding friction. its rolling friction and id be willing to bet the orings themselves have more friction than the sctual chain to sprocket contact area.
you could argue that a roller needs lube where it touches the pin, and this is almost right, truth is the roller barely moves at all. probably less than 1/2 a revolution to get into the sprocket and 1/2 to get out. this is such little movement that it basically doesnt need lube. besides that, rollers are never what fails on a chain. you never see a chain with missing rollers so why bother?
someone should find the last version of this thread. in that one i recall hearing about some motocross rider dipping his chain in hot bacon fat!
theres so many companys that want to sell you wet chain lubes, dry lubes, waxes, bla bla bla and countless people who push this stuff like its the holy grail of chain lube when all that most people need is a bottle of wd40, or any other light oil.
think of a locomotive. its got metal wheels and runs on a metal track. obviously they dont grease the track. why dont locomotives wear out wheels every hundred miles? because the wheel ROLL on the track just like the roller on a chain ROLLS into and outof the sprocket. locomotive wheels and chains/sprkcets dont have sliding friction. its rolling friction and id be willing to bet the orings themselves have more friction than the sctual chain to sprocket contact area.
you could argue that a roller needs lube where it touches the pin, and this is almost right, truth is the roller barely moves at all. probably less than 1/2 a revolution to get into the sprocket and 1/2 to get out. this is such little movement that it basically doesnt need lube. besides that, rollers are never what fails on a chain. you never see a chain with missing rollers so why bother?
someone should find the last version of this thread. in that one i recall hearing about some motocross rider dipping his chain in hot bacon fat!
theres so many companys that want to sell you wet chain lubes, dry lubes, waxes, bla bla bla and countless people who push this stuff like its the holy grail of chain lube when all that most people need is a bottle of wd40, or any other light oil.
whoooooooooooooooooooppppppppppppppppppssssssssss
that should be "2-3,000 miles"
that should be "2-3,000 miles"
- Status
Similar threads
