Motorcraft Oil Filter Catastrophic Seam Failure

ZeeOSix said:
Most oil filters are rated to take well over 200 PSI of internal pressure ... some more like around 250-300 PSI.

So if you saw 60 PSI with hot oil and well over 3,000 RPM, then that sounds pretty normal.


40 PSI at what RPM going down the highway.

I highly doubt it's going to be 140 PSI with hot oil (or even cold oil at higher RPM) unless the pressure relief valve is not working right.
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I meant 140psi for bursting pressure. Sry.
Usually at around 65 the rpms are around 1600-1700 rpm IIRC.
 
ZeeOSix said:
Is that with fully hot oil? If so, what's the oil pressure at say 3500-4000 RPM? It would be higher than 65 PSI if it's 65 PSI at 1600-1700.
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IIRC, it rises to about 60psi when fully hot if I bring the rpms up over 3k

I have to recheck that on the vehicle that burst the oil filter. I think I see where you're going. If it goes over 60psi hot then it would point to the engine oil pressure relief valve. Am I close?
 
If you want to trust the vehicle as "reliable" again, and the pressure relief is built into the oil pump (looks like it is), replace the pump.
Evidently you have a sporadic problem, because you were able to drive it 200 miles before the filter burst. The only way I would trust it again if it were mine, is after a pump assembly replacement.
If you intend to keep the vehicle long term, the question is - how much is your peace of mind worth?
 
MaximumMini said:
IIRC, it rises to about 60psi when fully hot if I bring the rpms up over 3k

I have to recheck that on the vehicle that burst the oil filter. I think I see where you're going. If it goes over 60psi hot then it would point to the engine oil pressure relief valve. Am I close?
Click to expand...
If it's typically at 60 PSI with hot oil while well over 3K RPM, then the pump relief valve is probably working normally. Even near redline, it would probably still be around 65 PSI with hot oil. If you see it pegged at 80 PSI with hot oil even at above 3K RPM, then the pump pressure relief valve is probably malfunctioning. Since you said the gauge max reading is 80 PSI, any time it's pegged the pressure is really unknown, as it could be way over 80 PSI.

But as mentioned, even if it's working properly now it could have been an intermittent issue with the pump pressure relief valve. It could have stuck closed for some reason, then dislodged and started working correctly again. I hate intermittent issues like that. You could take the oil pump off and remove the pressure relief valve and ensure it doesn't have a flaw or burr on it that would hang it up. Or just replace the whole pump. Think you said it was a new pump not long ago. Maybe call the manufacture and tell them the story of the oil filter bursting and see it they might exchange it under warranty.
 
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Mechanician said:
If you want to trust the vehicle as "reliable" again, and the pressure relief is built into the oil pump (looks like it is), replace the pump.
Evidently you have a sporadic problem, because you were able to drive it 200 miles before the filter burst. The only way I would trust it again if it were mine, is after a pump assembly replacement.
If you intend to keep the vehicle long term, the question is - how much is your peace of mind worth?
Click to expand...

The oil pump is the Mahle/Melling and is brand new. It was installed last month.
On this motor, the Oil pressure relief valve is not part of the oil pump. The pump and the separate pressure relief valve are housed in the timing cover. You can replace either or both.

It is possible that a small piece of something got into the works while the timing cover was off. This is the same motor that the piston was replaced in two month ago so it's been open a lot in the last 90 days. Heads were off also.

I plan to pull to oil pan off and pull the pressure relief piston out and inspect it and the bore.
 
ZeeOSix said:
If it's typically at 60 PSI with hot oil while well over 3K RPM, then the pump relief valve is probably working normally. Even near redline, it would probably still be around 65 PSI with hot oil. If you see it pegged at 80 PSI with hot oil even at above 3K RPM, then the pump pressure relief valve is probably malfunctioning. Since you said the gauge max reading is 80 PSI, any time it's pegged the pressure is really unknown, as it could be way over 80 PSI.

But as mentioned, even if it's working properly now it could have been an intermittent issue with the pump pressure relief valve. It could have stuck closed for some reason, then dislodged and started working correctly again. I had intermittent issues like that. You could take the oil pump off and remove the pressure relief valve and ensure it doesn't have a flaw or burr on it that would hang it up. Or just replace the whole pump. Think you said it was a new pump not long ago. Maybe call the manufacture and tell them the story of the oil filter bursting and see it they might exchange it under warranty.
Click to expand...

The way these Chrysler 3.3L and 3.8L engines are designed, the oil pump is housed inside the timing cover and the pressure relief valve is totally separate. It's also in the timing cover but not part of the oil pump itself. You can replace the oil pump by removing the timing cover which I did recently. The oil pressure relief valve only requires dropping the oil pan without touching the timing cover or oil pump.

I'm going to drop the oil pan, pull the pressure relief valve and inspect it soon.
 
MaximumMini said:
The way these Chrysler 3.3L and 3.8L engines are designed, the oil pump is housed inside the timing cover and the pressure relief valve is totally separate. It's also in the timing cover but not part of the oil pump itself. You can replace the oil pump by removing the timing cover which I did recently. The oil pressure relief valve only requires dropping the oil pan without touching the timing cover or oil pump.

I'm going to drop the oil pan, pull the pressure relief valve and inspect it soon.
Click to expand...
Aaah ... good to know. Yes, pulling the pressure relief valve and checking if for any scoring and ensure it has free movement would be the next best move. Let us know if you find anything abnormal with it.
 
MaximumMini said:
The way these Chrysler 3.3L and 3.8L engines are designed, the oil pump is housed inside the timing cover and the pressure relief valve is totally separate. It's also in the timing cover but not part of the oil pump itself. You can replace the oil pump by removing the timing cover which I did recently. The oil pressure relief valve only requires dropping the oil pan without touching the timing cover or oil pump.

I'm going to drop the oil pan, pull the pressure relief valve and inspect it soon.
Click to expand...
Any more blown up oil filters?
 
Gravity said:
Any more blown up oil filters?
Click to expand...
Not yet.
I haven't pulled the oil pan off yet, but I've been driving the minivan. As long as I warm the engine to op temp at idle all is ok. so I'm still not sure if it was the filter or a stuck relief valve. But I tend to suspect stuck relief valve. I'll get to it soon.
 
MaximumMini said:
Not yet.
I haven't pulled the oil pan off yet, but I've been driving the minivan. As long as I warm the engine to op temp at idle all is ok. so I'm still not sure if it was the filter or a stuck relief valve. But I tend to suspect stuck relief valve. I'll get to it soon.
Click to expand...
Are you still running a motorcraft oil filter or did you decide to run something else?
 
Gravity said:
Are you still running a motorcraft oil filter or did you decide to run something else?
Click to expand...
I changed to Purolator Boss.
I was thinking...if it was a stuck pressure relief valve, I would think the pressure would still be on the high side at higher rpm, even when fully warmed up. But maybe not.
 
I watched a video once where a mechanic talked about counterfeit filters, and he compared a Toyota cartridge (insert) filter to a fake that he had. Something that stuck with me is he claimed he couldn't crush the real filter cartridge with his hand, while he revealed the fake to be bizarrely flexible in that regard. I had no idea that cellulose cartridges were that rigid and strong (I never wanted to potentially damage one I was gonna use), so if a cartridge filter seems weak to crushing, be suspicious.
 
^^^ That was the Car Care Nut. He also showed that Toyota filters are also suppose to have the word "TOYTOA" printed on the media.
 
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