MotorCraft 5w20(SN) 4,258 2010 Civic

[chubbs1]

This vehicle has been driven mostly short trips during this OCI. I have flushed the heck out of this engine with 7 oil changes (including the latest). I find it a little hard to understand the high Aluminum. B_S commented it could be from piston wear. OLM was at 50%. Universal avgs. based on 5600mi. Al. (should be) 5ppm
Total miles on vehicle 17,958
Air filter: Full
Replaced with NPN

Oil Filter Mann ML-1008

Code:


Aluminum 21

Iron 4

Copper 3

Tin 1

Moly 69

Ti 2

K 1

Boron 110

Silicon 9

Sodium 3



Calcium 2159

Mag 97

Phos 772

Zinc 791



SUS V @ 210F 50.8

cSt V @ 100C 7.51

FP 410F

Insols. 0.3

TBN 4.7



Quick add, this car is a lease, if you personally saw consistent UOA's with high aluminum would you dump the vehicle

 

[Colt45ws]

How much longer you have on the lease? I would just keep paperwork and if it blows up, that is what the warranty is for.

 

[dkryan]

Help me out with a couple of things, please.

What does "full" mean in reference to the air filter? Is (or was) it the original air filter when you leased the car?

And more importantly, do I understand you to say that you've changed the oil SEVEN times in 18k miles? Why?

 

[Radman]

UOA's show higher values when engines have less than 30K miles. If I were you I would change to a 5W30 and resample again after 24K miles. Your TBN is good although I would stick to 4-5K OCI's

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
Help me out with a couple of things, please.

What does "full" mean in reference to the air filter? Is (or was) it the original air filter when you leased the car?


I'm guessing that "Full" was the brand name. My buddies Subaru had one of their oil filters on it (nice filter!).


Originally Posted By: dkryan
And more importantly, do I understand you to say that you've changed the oil SEVEN times in 18k miles? Why?


3 air filters (at least), 7 oil changes in 18K? I'm guessing that this is actually contributing to the accelerated wear, on both counts.

If I were in his shoes, I'd leave the air filter alone, run the oil to 80% of the MM then re-sample.

 

[bepperb]

The Aluminium almost has to be from piston wear, I can't think of anywhere else there is aluminum in a wear area.

20ppm really isn't that much, it's not catastrophic damage that's for sure. Piston slap on the K series is pretty noticeable on startup and the first minute or so of running, I assume the R series is the same.

 

[gathermewool]

Follow the MM and quit changing the air filter so often. If your oil looks good and is performing adequately at 50%, then changing it out for fresh oil will add ZERO value - it doesn't justs stop protecting your engine all of the sudden, nor does it cause additional wear. You're wasting your money and time doing it so often, and obviously giving yourself needless headaches!

Piston wear? The whole block is Al.

 

[SLCraig]

Agree about the frequent changes.
I just changed my factory air filter literally last night at 32,000KM or around your mileage, if not a bit more. And even it was arguably still serviceable.

 

[chubbs1]

I am just trying to give them no excuses with the air filter. Changed annually. Is that such a terrible thing?? Yeah maybe I changed the oil to much but I just got off of a 4200mi OCI. I was flushing and now I'm settling in.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Piston wear? The whole block is Al.


Maybe, but there isn't a place where metal wears on the aluminum block. The cylinders have cast iron liners. The piston rings are steel. The crankshaft, camshafts, timing set is all steel and float on bronze/brass bushings. The reason that pistons are seen as the culprit when AL is seen in a UOA is that despite the entire block being made of aluminum, anywhere there is metal to metal contact it is not with the block itself. The Aluminum shouldn't be from the block unless something is terribly wrong (and at 22ppm I doubt this is the case) and is likely from the AL piston skirts making contact with the cylinder liners.

 

[Colt45ws]

Um, Im not a Honda expert but as far as Im aware most modern engines have bimetal aluminum bearings.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Piston wear? The whole block is Al.


Maybe, but there isn't a place where metal wears on the aluminum block. The cylinders have cast iron liners. The piston rings are steel. The crankshaft, camshafts, timing set is all steel and float on bronze/brass bushings. The reason that pistons are seen as the culprit when AL is seen in a UOA is that despite the entire block being made of aluminum, anywhere there is metal to metal contact it is not with the block itself. The Aluminum shouldn't be from the block unless something is terribly wrong (and at 22ppm I doubt this is the case) and is likely from the AL piston skirts making contact with the cylinder liners.


I didn't realize the liners in Civics were cast iron. I'll have to look into that. I guess I assumed the liners were some sort of Al alloy too.

I still don't think 22ppm is anything to worry about, especially since the OP says the trend is consistently high - I'm not sure if that means steadily high or consistently higher than what he considers abnormal.

 

[Ayrton]

I think you'll likely be ok. This is NOT a lot of wear!

You are probably still seeing some break in. When you put in that oil, it only had what, 13,500 or so? See, that is normal to still see it elevated some.


I'm a bit like you, I probably change my air filters too much, but oh well!

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Um, Im not a Honda expert but as far as Im aware most modern engines have bimetal aluminum bearings.


Could be. But usually a bimetal is an alloy of aluminum and tin and a trimetal bearing has some yellow metal layer (copper). If I had to guess I'd say this wasn't bimetal since there is copper in the UOA. If this was bearings of any type, there should be more of another metal than Aluminum... at least I would think.

 

[Jim Allen]

Don't the cams run in aluminum in the cylinder head on the Civic engine?

 

[ford390gashog]

The cams ride directly on the aluminum head with no bearings, and the rod and crank bearings are also all aluminum like what Ford uses in its engines these days.

 

[Artem]

Even with the slightly elevated Al wear, i think changing the oil @ 50% oil life and 4,000 miles is a waste, ESPECIALLY with a leased vehicle. You can easily run the MM down to 5% and 6-8k miles and have nothing to worry about.

If i were in your shoes, i'd use the car as a test bed and run extended drain intervals. I do that with my 07 Civic EX and i own the car! you've seen my 10,000 mile UOAs.

 

[Al]

Too bad there are no Cr. readings?

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: Al
Too bad there are no Cr. readings?


The elements left out were measured at zero ppm. Sorry I did not explain that.