5w-30 at 10.2k miles; 230k miles on Villager

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
97
Location
North Carolina
I have been told that to get to the GF-5 standard even dino oils are 30% synthetic. Mentally, as you've seen from my early drain tendencies, it would make me crazy to go 10,000 miles. My hat's off to you and, btw, your signature make all the sense in the world to me.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
146
Location
Southern California
I'm not surprised by this UOA. No doubt the engine loved the last 4K miles of that oil fill, running at full temp for hours at a time, and staying right at its torque peak through the mountain passes.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
9,288
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Yes, highway mileage is some of the easiest on the equipment; comes up to temp, good hydrodynamic oil wedge in the bearings, etc. I don't know that we'll have another 4k mile highway run next year; we don't head to AZ every year. We do some highway driving, but most of it is contained to a few hours in the mid-west. Typically, the van sees probably 90% "BITOG severe" defined driving. I personally don't think BITOG severe is as severe as most here think; we tend to be a very AR lot when it comes to our equipment, and we're overly senstive to OCIs, service factors, and weather temps. There are millions upon millions of cars/trucks/vans/motorcycles/boats/mowers/tractors/etc that survive just fine with nearly zero thought. We BITOGers are overly critical nearly all the time when it comes to weather and service factor. All one has to do is look at the PCMO UOA page; count up how many synthetic UOAs you see at or near OEM OCI duration. As of this morning, 14 of the 18 threads were all specialty lubes in normal OCIs. Naw - we're not biased here .... My wife's "normal" driving would be considered "severe" by most BITOGers; lots of short trips and multiple starts. But don't forget that in this UOA the first 6k miles of this OCI was just her "BITOG severe" driving. At this point, I'm inclined to run 10k miles of her normal driving, and then sample (but not OCI). I'll let the UOA tell me if I can go further, which I susepct I will be able to do, and hit the 15k mile mark.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
4,021
Location
New England
Usually "BITOG severe" matches up with what most owners manuals consider severe driving. A larger issue is probably that the general motoring public never stops to think of whether their use is "severe" or not. For example, Honda defines "severe" use as:
Originally Posted By: Honda Owners Manual
Follow the Maintenance Schedule for Severe Conditions if you drive your car MAINLY under one or more of the following conditions. Driving less than 5 miles (8 km) per trip or, in freezing temperatures, driving less than 10 miles (16 km) per trip. Driving in extremely hot [over 90°F (32°C)] conditions. Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving, such as a taxi or a commercial delivery vehicle.
Sadly, that DOES encompass a huge number of drivers. To what extent that utimately factors in to lube life I do not know, but it is a consideration. It seems like more of a condemnation of running synthetic oils for longer simply because they're synthetic and probably points more to manufacturer suggested intervals for conventional oil (if it meets minimum specifications).
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
9,288
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I would agree that many OEMs would similarly describe their severe use as such. In fact, my wife's driving patterns fit neatly into all those criteria (the heat, the cold, the short trips and the idling). Which would push me into 3k mile OEM OCIs per the owner's manual. Being a 1995 vehicle, that warranty LONG ago expired, so I'm not concerned about that portion of the equation. The OEM OCIs hold no interest in the owner; they are predicated on shorter terms of exposure to protect the warrantor (the OEM). Even if something is mildly wrong (a leaking injector, an air leak, etc) the short OEM OCIs keep the wear down low enough that they can get through the warranty period with no issues. They are fail-safe limits that have no bearing on a healthy engine; they are set such that even if something is wrong, it will be flushed away before it becomes too destructive. So, in an effort to protect the warrantor (not the warrantee), the OEM OCIs are VERY conservative. They don't care how much you spend on oil changes; it does not come out of their pocket. It's easy for them to tell you to OCI often when they don't pay of it. You are actually paying excessive money to protect their warranty claims rate. And after warranty expires, there really is ZERO reason to stick with such a pattern when you have data to tell you otherwise. I do understand that compliance with OEM OCIs is a necessity to have reasonable expectation of warranty coverage. I, too, do the same thing. But once warranty expires, the world is your oyster; there is no reason not to expand your mind, and your OCI. And that is what most folks here at BITOG seem to miss. They often pay big money for syntethic fluids, then run them at OEM OCIs, and then pay additional money for a UOA, and yet they do nothing with the premium products but waste them. When a UOA clearly proves a healthy engine/lube relationship, why not extend the OCI? OEM OCIs exist in the absence of UOA data. But if you pay for the data, why ignore it?
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
9,288
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: 3311
Was this WNE or WPP? We seem to have both down here in Fl.
To be honest, I'm not sure. Didn't even think to check. Sorry; wish I could help with the answer.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
5,421
Location
Midwest
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 3311
Was this WNE or WPP? We seem to have both down here in Fl.
To be honest, I'm not sure. Didn't even think to check. Sorry; wish I could help with the answer.
WNE WPP are the same company.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
9,288
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 3311
Was this WNE or WPP? We seem to have both down here in Fl.
To be honest, I'm not sure. Didn't even think to check. Sorry; wish I could help with the answer.
WNE WPP are the same company.
Was unaware of that; thanks for the clarification. Learn something new every day!
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
Northern, NY
Originally Posted By: k24a4
Thanks for the data. We appreciate you posting. With this UOA about 40% of it was under ideal conditions with your long road trip. When you push the OCI to 15k will this be duplicated, or will most of that usage fall under the "severe" category?
I had the same thought about the "driving cycle" for the next OCI, mainly if it would include a long trip. 15k of typical minivan operation seems like a much "taller order" for the oil. I think the frequency of trips that get the oil warm enough to cook off moisture/fuel are very important.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
419
Location
Va
This forum is really amazing. Sometimes I wonder why I still use synthetic oil in my vehicles. I know that my vehicles and driving conditions are completely different but still his results from supertech oil are amazing. Thanks for taking the time and doing the UOA.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
9,779
Location
Saskatoon canada
Dnewton I love your posts. I learn quite a lot from your opinions in threads where some get offended and shouldn't. Thank you for posting and using your own vehicle as a test mule. This just goes to show that a "supermarket" oil,as some here refer to supertech as is just as capable as any other expensive oil in this application.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
3,517
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
OK; OK...uncle! You have convinced me--I will go 10K on this run of MS5K and see how it looks in my FX4. Of course, 10K on MS5K means that I would have to have run the PU 25K for the ROI on the oil to match up (but then we also have to consider the cost of another FL-820s or a more expensive D+ or the like to ensure the filter lasts). cheers
I wouldn't be scared to run the fl820s for 10k miles. after all aren't all the new fords rated at a 10k mile normal oci? these vehicles recommend the use of an fl820s or fl500s correct? i dont think you will have and issue with 10k miles on and fl820s. its the best $4 filter in the world IMO.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
9,298
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
OK; OK...uncle! You have convinced me--I will go 10K on this run of MS5K and see how it looks in my FX4. Of course, 10K on MS5K means that I would have to have run the PU 25K for the ROI on the oil to match up (but then we also have to consider the cost of another FL-820s or a more expensive D+ or the like to ensure the filter lasts). cheers
I wouldn't be scared to run the fl820s for 10k miles. after all aren't all the new fords rated at a 10k mile normal oci? these vehicles recommend the use of an fl820s or fl500s correct? i dont think you will have and issue with 10k miles on and fl820s. its the best $4 filter in the world IMO.
I have no problems running it for 10K, my concern was running it for 25K to match the ROI; this is why I said the filter will need to be changed and thereby pushing the ROI out even further (apologies if that was not clear). My current fill of MS5K will be ran for 10K with a single FL-820s filter.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
1,836
Location
Pac NW
There certainly is a big difference between a synthetic oil change at Erl Can Junkie-Lube for $59.95 every 3K and a dino change every 10K at home... On most vehicles in most situations there may well be a middle ground that could satisfy most people. "YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY" Cheers! p.s. I personally think a 4000mi trip in a week is one of the better things you can do for your engine, and possibly a good opportunity for an AutoRX treatment if needed and appropriate.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
3,118
Location
San Antonio, TX
"Originally Posted By: Honda Owners Manual SEVERE SERVICE Driving in extremely hot [over 90°F (32°C)] conditions." I'm not too sure about this. That alone puts too many folks on the severe service schedule.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
970
Location
Virginia Bch. VA
I love ST oils. Especially with them meeting the SN rating. I have never ever had a problem with that oil for 5000 mile OCI's and I always wondered if I could take the OCI out longer. Now I am determined that when I do my next OCI I am gonna try it with the ST. Good price and ROI.
 

dmk

Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
127
Location
Chicago
Off topic a bit but how would this vehicle have a Nissan powertrain? I'm sure it's the same powertrain as in a Taurus or Sable. Or did Ford have some agreement to have Nissan make the vans for them like VW and Chrysler?
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
1,262
Location
Cadyville, NY
the mercury villager and nissan quest are the same van. they were co-engineered between ford and nissan. they utilize nissan powertrains, but other than that, they are a hodgepodge of parts provided by both companies, made to work together. it is not a nissan van rebadged for mercury, ford played a major design role.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,558
Location
Oregon coast
dnewton3, Thank you for your research. I have been using Supertech 5W/30 in my 96 Maxima with the VQ30 since I bought it 3 years ago, and put it in our Uplander on the last OCI. I will still change the Maxima at 4K and the Uplander according to the oil minder, but I will now do it knowing that I am not harming my vehicles with "cheap" oil.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top