I don't even know what a PHEV is. Too many letters. Kinda like Toyota engine identification.
Motor Trend Hit Job on PHEVs
- Thread starter Astro_Guy
- Start date
His bent is that PHEV is green whitewashing for the OEM's because people don't charge them enough and end up on ICE only. The owner is overpaying for the technology that they're not consistently using, while generating more emissions compared to ICE only version. If in practice and PHEV is too difficult to remember to charge everyday and you want some sort of EV then buy an EV because you won't have to charge it every day OR just buy ICE.
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Interesting the writer mentions his "friend, mentor, and Pulitzer Prize–winning auto scribe Dan Neil." Mr. Neil earned his Pulitzer Prize for "Criticism". Who would have thought there was such a category. Anyway, look at his employment history and it seems he's one of those malcontent types.
Scott
Scott
Yes that’s his bent but it’s bunk. Who pays all that money for a PHEV and doesn’t plug it in. I would hazard to guess it’s almost everyone that does or they would just buy something else. I know there’s a lot of discussion on the Toyota boards as to whether they have to actually use the ice engine once in a while or risk the gas going bad in the tank.
The counter argument is equally accurate. They’re digging up huge swaths of the world and expending much energy to produce a battery that will go 300 miles, when all they really need is 30 most days - so works both ways.
I am also not a huge fan, but for completely different reasons.
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The annual prize for criticism exists because the of the held view that critics are writers too.
Regardless - calls outs to , or alignment with certain "authority" figures don't necessarily strengthen anyones case.
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A major thing you miss is ones like the Toyota RAV4 PHEV flip themselves into a hybrid and get superior MPG to their gas counterparts.
My sister in law likes hers as she charges at work with enough to return home. At home she charges the 42 ish miles to get to work. They like the extended range of hybrid(40 mpg) as they don’t have time to charge driving 3hrs+ each way for kids in sports leagues.
The cost of PHEV premium vs hybrid when she bought was negated by $7500 tax credit federal and the $2100 one from State of MA.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Meanwhile they published this article on July 2nd.
What Are the Downsides in the Rush to EVs and EV Adoption?
The end goal is (mostly) good, but the race to get there has definitely caused some problems.
Tim StevensWriterAlan MuirIllustratorMotorTrend StaffPhotographerGetty ImagesPhotographerJul 02, 2024
https://www.motortrend.com/staff/alan-muir/
What Are the Downsides in the Rush to EVs and EV Adoption?
The end goal is (mostly) good, but the race to get there has definitely caused some problems.
Tim StevensWriterAlan MuirIllustratorMotorTrend StaffPhotographerGetty ImagesPhotographerJul 02, 2024
https://www.motortrend.com/staff/alan-muir/
I've found that most of them never really criticize a vehicle because they are sponsored by the manufacturers. They might find some little thing but that's it.
I don't either. What is it?
Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle.
Refers to a hybrid that can run for a distance on battery power only. They have a plug..
1st one I knew about was my friend's BMW i8. Here's a pic of the day I worked on it, due to a coolant issue. Do you know how to open the clam shell hood?
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I wrote to several car magazines back in 2019ish and was able to get several good pictures of the upcoming F-150 lighting, an electric suv that ended up being the Mach-E and two higher performance versions of the Ford GT that had chrome mirrored engine covers. The head editor of CarandDriver replied told me of all of the automotive manufacturers Ford more or less cuts off anyone and everyone that publishes pre-production testing pics and video. Most car companies just roll with it as that's life when testing in public. Ford has a chip on their shoulder. One of the TFL writers happened to catch the new bronco back when testing. It was next to him in traffic, and low and behold it had a manual transmission shifter. They took pictures and published them on their website. Overnight they were conveniently "uninvited" from the Ford unveiling party.
Motor Trend? Who cares.
The writer of this opinion piece shows considerable technical ignorance. Nothing unusual there for the low wage hacks who now write for the dying buff books, as they used to be called back in the day. MT was never on a par with C&D or R&T back in that day either.
A PHEV is nothing more than an HEV with more battery capacity. The larger battery pack makes for a more costly vehicle than a straight HEV and I'd doubt that anybody is paying this premium and then not taking advantage of it by charging the battery at home each day, or at work where available (even better).
When the traction battery reaches a certain level of charge, the car then operates just like an HEV and will not be much less efficient in this mode than the HEV only vehicle since the additional weight for what is still a fairly light battery pack isn't all that much.
Far from "greenwashing" a PHEV allows many owners to consume less fuel than they would with any ICE or most HEVs and thereby emit less CO2, just as is true of the HEV.
In short, a silly bit of writing by someone with little understanding of how hybrids actually work.
A PHEV is nothing more than an HEV with more battery capacity. The larger battery pack makes for a more costly vehicle than a straight HEV and I'd doubt that anybody is paying this premium and then not taking advantage of it by charging the battery at home each day, or at work where available (even better).
When the traction battery reaches a certain level of charge, the car then operates just like an HEV and will not be much less efficient in this mode than the HEV only vehicle since the additional weight for what is still a fairly light battery pack isn't all that much.
Far from "greenwashing" a PHEV allows many owners to consume less fuel than they would with any ICE or most HEVs and thereby emit less CO2, just as is true of the HEV.
In short, a silly bit of writing by someone with little understanding of how hybrids actually work.
The whole point of plug in hybrid is 1) you can eliminate the range anxiety of EV, and 2) you can get most of the overall benefit of EV if you only have a 40 mile battery instead of a 300 mile battery. That's the fundamental reason for a plug in. The rest are icing on the cake.
If you want 100% battery and never drive more than 300 miles anyways, good for you, go get an EV.
If you don't have a place to charge anything, EV or plug in, then don't even bother, just get a regular hybrid.
If you don't even need a car other than for road trip, don't even buy a car, just rent one when you need one for the day.
This is that simple. Who cares if plug in is 20% dirtier than an EV if an EV won't work for you. Who cares about "you have to plug in every night", just get a regular hybrid if you are not going to plug it in at all. The whole point of plug in is, you can plug it in and drive it like a 40 miles EV and then switch to gas afterward.
It is like complaining about Yaris' towing capacity or a truck not having a sliding door like minivan. This journalism is stupid.
To be honest I don't like PHEVs. I understand why others like them and I understand what their merits are. I have no desire to have both systems in a car though. The fact is with my use if I can run on EV most of the time in a PHEV I should just buy an EV. I find it completely useless for my purposes.
That said it's not my call on that. If it works for someone else, more power to them. I'll either buy a reasonably efficient full ICE performance vehicle or a full EV. There's nothing available in the hybrid realm that even remotely appeals to me. It's unnecessary weight and complication when there is a pure version of either that covers my needs. Affordable hybrids are not hardcore enough performance wise and EVs take all of the annoyances of stop start away if it must be an appliance.
Never miss a chance for a pointless comment stupid comment.
That said it's not my call on that. If it works for someone else, more power to them. I'll either buy a reasonably efficient full ICE performance vehicle or a full EV. There's nothing available in the hybrid realm that even remotely appeals to me. It's unnecessary weight and complication when there is a pure version of either that covers my needs. Affordable hybrids are not hardcore enough performance wise and EVs take all of the annoyances of stop start away if it must be an appliance.
Never miss a chance for a pointless comment stupid comment.
Well, he certainly meets that description and no I never miss an opportunity.
One might just as well say that they don't see the merits of a limited range EV when a HEV full of fuel can do well over 700 miles an a full tank of fuel and that tank only holds thirteen gallons.
Under favorable conditions I can easily see range of over 800 miles.
It's not as though a Model 3 is a great handling car either, although it does offer killer acceleration, which would get old after the first few times of flooring the pedal.
I can drive the HAH on much longer trips than any EV can do without ever stopping for fuel.
I'm not missing anything. I'm just explaining what the author is thinking.
With as much hate as you carry and fear of the future, I'm amazed you get your pants on to get to work and get a check to keep the internet on to argue with all of us.
That might have been one of the better rants I’ve seen in a while. Well done
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