MOST current GC VOAs/specs/cSts/TBNs/HTHSes

[dailydriver]

Can someone please guide/link me to the absolute MOST current (< 2 years old!); VOAs, add pack specs, cSts, TBNs, HTHSes, etc. for GC GOLD??? I can't find them anywhere (at least not newer than ~ 3 years old).

Thanks in advance.

Dave H.

 

[m6pwr]

Did a VOA (no TBN measured) with Blackstone on 5-08 with oil from a bottle with production code beginning with M07... which I believe means produced in 2007.

The following elements/properties were identified;

iron 1 ppm
silicon 6
sodium 6
calcium 1957
magnesium 618
phosphorus 933
zinc 1160

SUS at 210 F 66.3
cSts at 100 C 11.97
flashpoint 455 F

All other elements/properties were listed as nil or 0.

Blackstone comments: Nothing wrong with this oil and it has a strong viscosity for a 0w-30...in the range we often find for 10w-40s.

You can find Product Data Sheets and Material Safety Data Sheets for Syntec on the Castrol.com website. The US site (Castrol.com/us) has a PDS that specifically identifies the Syntec 0w-30 as the "European Formula". The MSDS does not specifically call out the Syntec 0w-30 as the European Formula and it indicates the base stock as "highly refined" which usually means the base stock is Group III.

If you look at the German and UK Castrol sites, I believe the same oil is branded as Edge 0w-30. I can't call up a MSDS from the German site, and the UK site MSDS shows the base stock as "unspecified...proprietary info".

I mention this because practically everyone on BITOG seems to be of the opinion that GC is a Group IV PAO base stock - - but I don't know how they've come by this information.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
Did a VOA (no TBN measured) with Blackstone on 5-08 with oil from a bottle with production code beginning with M07... which I believe means produced in 2007.

The following elements/properties were identified;

iron 1 ppm
silicon 6
sodium 6
calcium 1957
magnesium 618
phosphorus 933
zinc 1160

SUS at 210 F 66.3
cSts at 100 C 11.97
flashpoint 455 F

All other elements/properties were listed as nil or 0.

Blackstone comments: Nothing wrong with this oil and it has a strong viscosity for a 0w-30...in the range we often find for 10w-40s.

You can find Product Data Sheets and Material Safety Data Sheets for Syntec on the Castrol.com website. The US site (Castrol.com/us) has a PDS that specifically identifies the Syntec 0w-30 as the "European Formula". The MSDS does not specifically call out the Syntec 0w-30 as the European Formula and it indicates the base stock as "highly refined" which usually means the base stock is Group III.

If you look at the German and UK Castrol sites, I believe the same oil is branded as Edge 0w-30. I can't call up a MSDS from the German site, and the UK site MSDS shows the base stock as "unspecified...proprietary info".

I mention this because practically everyone on BITOG seems to be of the opinion that GC is a Group IV PAO base stock - - but I don't know how they've come by this information.


Thanks for the reply/info!!

I also thought it was a grp. 4 PAO base, maybe even with a smidgen of grp. 5 esters thrown in for good measure!!

The elfen experts better chime in on this given info.

 

[yannis]

Castrol seems to change formulations every year.
A few years back we analysized it with the help of Terry and Molakule. It was PAO, now nobody knows for sure.

 

[SpeedyMan]

It is really strange - Castrol has too much models of oil.

 

[BayouTodd]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
I mention this because practically everyone on BITOG seems to be of the opinion that GC is a Group IV PAO base stock - - but I don't know how they've come by this information.


Well, its listed in the FAQ as such...
"GC is a TRUE synthetic. Made from PAO/Esters, not Group III. Click here for more reading."and they reference a link in on "theoildropserver" which is now dead (http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000509)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=718643#Post718643

 

[m6pwr]

Well, obviously someone at Castrol didn't read the FAQ when they wrote the MSDS. Can you find a current Castrol MSDS that lists the base stock as PAO?

 

[FD777]

I apologize, but the FAQ hasn't been updated in two years. There's a few factors, but I kinda fell out of researching oil.
If anyone wants to take over, shoot me a PM. I posted the same offer in the FAQ thread, but still no takers.

 

[Drivebelt]

A 0W-30 that meets MB 229.5 will basically need to use PAO, or a good portion of it. The NOACK of 229.5 is 10%. A Group III can't meet the cold spec's of 0W and that 10% NOACK by itself. A wax isomerate Group III+ might come close, and the Group III+ GTL can, but are just becoming available now.

If you look at Amsoil SSO 0W-30, NOACK = 8.65%. Being a PAO/Ester based motor oil, even it doesn't make that 229.5 specification by a very large margin.

One could probably make the spec with some blend of Group III/PAO oil (like 50/50), or even a 70/30 blend of Group III+/PAO.

FWIW, I've read that Castrol SLX Professional Longtec Longlife II 0W-30 is the same oil as GC (don't know if that's true or not).

The MSDS for Castrol SLX 0W-30.pdf lists one of the CAS numbers as 151006-62-1 (20 -50%) which is a PAO. The SLX is a 229.5 rated oil.

It's possible GC is a Group III/PAO or Group III+/PAO blend. Given the pricing advantage of Group III's, this seems quite plausible.

 

[john1944]

This is the reply I recently (Dec 08) received from Castrol USA about the GC 0W-30 oil:

Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30 is a Group IV PAO based oil. The product is made in and
imported from Germany. When most people in the U.S. discuss "German Castrol"
they are referring to Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30 because this product is made in
Germany. This product can be further distinguished by the call-out on the front
label, which says "European Formula."

Thank you again for your interest in Castrol, The Technology Leader!

Consumer Relations

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:22 PM
To: Online customer service
Subject: Castrol USA - Contact Us Form Data
Importance: High

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: john1944
Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30 is a Group IV PAO based oil. The product is made in and imported from Germany.

But since not all Syntec 0w-30 is "Made in Germany", it begs the question: what group is the Syntec 0w-30 that's "Made in USA"? After all, it meets all the same specs as the GC.

Also, the "PAO-based oil" is a very vague kind of response since no percentage was provided. You could have 0.05% PAO in there and still technically claim that it is "PAO-based".

But all-in-all, I personally don't really care what group it is, as long as it meets my engine's mfg specs and does the job.

 

[GMorg]

The current MSDS at the Castrol Website lists "mineral oil" at 10-15% and "highly refined" oil at 1-5%. I would guess that these ingredients may be the additive carrier.

 

[SubieHo]

Compare the latest MSDS stats of Syntec 0W30 (GC) to Castrol Edge 0W30. They're identical. The EU has more stringent regulations about what can be marketed as "synthetic." It would follow, then, that both these oils are comprised of PAO base stocks.

From the Edge 0W30 MSDS: "Synthetic base stocks. Proprietary performance additives."

From the Edge 0W30 PDS: "Castrol EDGE 0W-30 is Castrol's latest generation technology, high performance engine oil.It is a fully synthetic, 0W-30 viscosity engine oil which meets a wide range of Mercedes, General Motors, BMW and VW specifications."

Flash Point: 234 C (ASTM D92-01)
cSt at 40 C: 72
cSt at 100 C: 12.2
Pour Point: -54 C

It is at these lower temperatures that group IV, V oils make their mark. These numbers together are unachievable with highly refined base stocks.

Heck! Mobil 1 OW20, an oil marketed for "Advanced Fuel Economy" has a pour point of -48 C.

I can't comment on the add pack for Edge and Syntec.

 

[Ibrahim]

some one on the other forum posted the specs of GC 0W-30, which i have not able to find nor have been able to confirm...I have checked all the Technical and Health & Safety Reports for Syntec & Edge 0W-30's (UK, Australia, Newzealand,US & Canada)

I haven't came across a single spec which matches to the specs below...can any one find or confirm the Technical Properties of 0W-30 Castrol Syntec (Made in Germany/ aka GC)

Thanks

*****************************
German Castrol Specs:
Color: Green
Pour Point: -61*C
Flash Point: 238*C
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1
Viscosity @ 150*C: 5.7
HTHS: 3.6
Cold Cranking Vis @ -30*C: 3200
TBN: 10.6
VI: 179

Source: http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/coupe-talk-2002-2006/130374-0w30-castrol-euro.html

 

[SubieHo]

The specs. I listed above are taken from the MSDS for the current formulation of GC and are identical to those for Castrol Edge 0W30 available in the EU.

VI: 169 (calculated)
HT/HS >3.5


Those specs you listed may be from an MSDS for an older formulation of GC, perhaps the "Green." Unless someone has an older MSDS file for GC green, it's hard to confirm.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: SubieHo
The specs. I listed above are taken from the MSDS for the current formulation of GC and are identical to those for Castrol Edge 0W30 available in the EU.

VI: 169 (calculated)
HT/HS >3.5


Those specs you listed may be from an MSDS for an older formulation of GC, perhaps the "Green." Unless someone has an older MSDS file for GC green, it's hard to confirm.


So Gold GC is actually EDGE 0W-30, that makes it a bargain. Is EU EDGE 0W-30 made in Germany? Is EDGE an extended drain formula in Europe? If so we might have struck Gold here.

Gold is the new Green.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Is EDGE an extended drain formula in Europe?

What is your definition of extended drain? Since pretty much all car manufacturers in Europe recommend at least 15k km OCIs, virtually all oils there could be considered "extended drain" by US standards.

The European EDGE 0w-30 carries the following approvals:

API SM/CF,
ACEA A3/B3/B4

MB-Approval 229.3/ 229.5,
VW 502.00/503.01/505.00,
BMW Longlife-01,
GM-LL-A-025,
GM-LL-B-025

So yeah, just based on those specs, I would consider it an extended drain oil.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Is EDGE an extended drain formula in Europe?

What is your definition of extended drain?


American Castrol's, 15,000 mile extended drain interval is as good a definition as any. Since that's over 24,000 kilometers, it's still significantly longer than the average you mention.

 

[Ibrahim]

The specs which I posted above are circulating all over the internet as GC's specs on many different forums, I have been unable to confirm that as of yet, if any one can, that be great.

on British website they got TDS for 2 different types of 0W-30, please check the links below.

For Modern Engines
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...01?OpenDocument

For Modern High Performance Diesel Engines
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...01?OpenDocument

The TDS reports found on Canadian and American websites for Syntec 0W-30 do not match, nor it tell if they are the specs of North American or German made 0W-30!

I guess the only way now perhaps to find the typical/technical chemical properties of the GC which is currently found in the market is by sending it's pure virgin sample for a complete lab testing, or has someone already done it?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
American Castrol's, 15,000 mile extended drain interval is as good a definition as any. Since that's over 24,000 kilometers, it's still significantly longer than the average you mention.

Both the Edge 0w-30 sold in Europe and GC 0w-30 sold in the US carry the BMW LL-01 certification. LL-01 spec applies to cars with oil life monitor (variable OCI). In some cases, this OCI can be as high as 20k miles (32k km).