Solar panels on a Prius! Bet that would give a tree hugger wood between their legs.
More Prius Magic
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Originally Posted By: Fester
The prius is a great stop gap car, however its no better than a straight up high mpg reg car.
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Show me a "straight up high mpg reg car" that has 96 cubic feet of interior volume, 16 cubes of cargo space, and still gets the mpgs the Prius does. Sure, if you don't need the room (I certainly do), and don't care about size, then you can get a tiny car that barely approaches the Prius' performance. You could, for example, get an Aveo, which will give you 24 city/32 hwy and only 91 cubic feet of interior. But if you want (or need) a midsize car, AND want tiny car mpgs, the Prius is the only game in town.
The prius is a great stop gap car, however its no better than a straight up high mpg reg car.
...
Show me a "straight up high mpg reg car" that has 96 cubic feet of interior volume, 16 cubes of cargo space, and still gets the mpgs the Prius does. Sure, if you don't need the room (I certainly do), and don't care about size, then you can get a tiny car that barely approaches the Prius' performance. You could, for example, get an Aveo, which will give you 24 city/32 hwy and only 91 cubic feet of interior. But if you want (or need) a midsize car, AND want tiny car mpgs, the Prius is the only game in town.
Yep. What he said. Prius isn't a tiny car. I'm thinking more and more that unless something else miraculous comes down the pike, I will be driving either a Prius or a Civic Hybrid next. But for now, the 9-5 is showing no signs of stopping, is paid for, is fuel efficient enough (low-mid 30's combined), and is fast when I do need it... But the 100+ miles a day I put on my car is going to hurt eventually (or at least really bother me) supposing gas prices don't tank.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Fester
The prius is a great stop gap car, however its no better than a straight up high mpg reg car.
...
Show me a "straight up high mpg reg car" that has 96 cubic feet of interior volume, 16 cubes of cargo space, and still gets the mpgs the Prius does. Sure, if you don't need the room (I certainly do), and don't care about size, then you can get a tiny car that barely approaches the Prius' performance. You could, for example, get an Aveo, which will give you 24 city/32 hwy and only 91 cubic feet of interior. But if you want (or need) a midsize car, AND want tiny car mpgs, the Prius is the only game in town.
Well my reference was for mpg mostly, even though they wont achieve the same mpg they come close and at nearly 1/2 the purchase price, also theres no battery's to worry about (I know the prius has a 100k battery warranty)if you just need a commuter car, and no worries about battery or electronics when the warranty is up, simplicity has its merits. I do think their ugly, not that a yaris looks much better, guess the days of stylish cars could come to an end, at least for the average Joe.
Originally Posted By: Fester
The prius is a great stop gap car, however its no better than a straight up high mpg reg car.
...
Show me a "straight up high mpg reg car" that has 96 cubic feet of interior volume, 16 cubes of cargo space, and still gets the mpgs the Prius does. Sure, if you don't need the room (I certainly do), and don't care about size, then you can get a tiny car that barely approaches the Prius' performance. You could, for example, get an Aveo, which will give you 24 city/32 hwy and only 91 cubic feet of interior. But if you want (or need) a midsize car, AND want tiny car mpgs, the Prius is the only game in town.
Well my reference was for mpg mostly, even though they wont achieve the same mpg they come close and at nearly 1/2 the purchase price, also theres no battery's to worry about (I know the prius has a 100k battery warranty)if you just need a commuter car, and no worries about battery or electronics when the warranty is up, simplicity has its merits. I do think their ugly, not that a yaris looks much better, guess the days of stylish cars could come to an end, at least for the average Joe.
So then what makes it a "stop-gap" instead of just a nice midsize (as classified by the EPA) car that gets great mpg?
because it still uses gasoline, and sooner or later we'll run out, It only delays the inevitable end of fossil fuels. Thats why.
Hopefully hydrogen fuel cell and reliable long running electric gets developed the sooner the better.
Hopefully hydrogen fuel cell and reliable long running electric gets developed the sooner the better.
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Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Well, I can't wait until I have a car powered in this fashion:
http://www.slate.com/id/2193827/
Please do keep us abreast of any further developments on this front. . .
Well, I can't wait until I have a car powered in this fashion:
http://www.slate.com/id/2193827/
Please do keep us abreast of any further developments on this front. . .
Originally Posted By: Fester
because it still uses gasoline, and sooner or later we'll run out, It only delays the inevitable end of fossil fuels. Thats why.
Hopefully hydrogen fuel cell and reliable long running electric gets developed the sooner the better.
Ah, ok. Sorry, I misread your original post and thought you were saying that the Prius was a stop-gap but the other mentioned small high mpg cars were not. Can't really contest the fact that gasoline isn't the final solution.
because it still uses gasoline, and sooner or later we'll run out, It only delays the inevitable end of fossil fuels. Thats why.
Hopefully hydrogen fuel cell and reliable long running electric gets developed the sooner the better.
Ah, ok. Sorry, I misread your original post and thought you were saying that the Prius was a stop-gap but the other mentioned small high mpg cars were not. Can't really contest the fact that gasoline isn't the final solution.
'88 ( or 89 ) FORD FESTIVA that runs strictly on solar power , go to http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?source=nav_video , enter ELECTRIC CARS for SEARCH VIDEOS , then click DRIVERS MAKING GAS OBSOLETE . Homemade battery and solar powered cars are about 1:12 into video clip . If they can do it , then the big corps could do if they really wanted to . We had several FESTIVAs ( MAZDA 121 ) and would get in the upper 30s > low 40s , not bad in snow with 12" studded snows . Moved a loveseat / sleeper sofa in that little car . Those 1.3 ltr. engines could take a beating . I'd swoop one up in a split second if were made available again or a used 1 with fairly low mileage . ENJOY
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As others pointed out compressors need a lot of power. I just bought a simple dehumidifier, 6A 120V = 720W
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
"every little bit helps" argument is valid. Unfortunatelly this option will cost minimum $1K, probably closer to the $2K-$3K range. Therefore, it is a rather expensive "little bit that helps"
This money would yield much better results applied to bigger batteries and/or plugin option.
Thus the more likely scenario is a simple high volume air circulation fan keeping interior and batteries cool while parked. This is of little value. As ekpolk pointed out, fuel savings would be great if panels took over the burden of powering compressor. That would be of some value.
My final problem is that panel power is wasted of air circulation which can be done in simpler cheaper ways. Meanwhile, that power is not captured into the main battery!!! What is more, on cooler days with a lot of sunshine when cooling is not needed (spring/autumn) what does panel do with its captured energy????
Given that the panel is expensive, its energy capture must be maximimzed by being always on and sending every last bit of energy into the main battery. That is the only way that the high cost can be justified. Over time, 10-20 years the panel will pay for itself, so long as its use is maximized.
Seems Toyota is not going to do that
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
"every little bit helps" argument is valid. Unfortunatelly this option will cost minimum $1K, probably closer to the $2K-$3K range. Therefore, it is a rather expensive "little bit that helps"
This money would yield much better results applied to bigger batteries and/or plugin option.
Thus the more likely scenario is a simple high volume air circulation fan keeping interior and batteries cool while parked. This is of little value. As ekpolk pointed out, fuel savings would be great if panels took over the burden of powering compressor. That would be of some value.
My final problem is that panel power is wasted of air circulation which can be done in simpler cheaper ways. Meanwhile, that power is not captured into the main battery!!! What is more, on cooler days with a lot of sunshine when cooling is not needed (spring/autumn) what does panel do with its captured energy????
Given that the panel is expensive, its energy capture must be maximimzed by being always on and sending every last bit of energy into the main battery. That is the only way that the high cost can be justified. Over time, 10-20 years the panel will pay for itself, so long as its use is maximized.
Seems Toyota is not going to do that
I should have said that it is commendable that they are trying.
Toyota still deserves a lot of credit for starting up the entire hybrid market when Honda (Insight) and others (GM EV1) gave up.
I just find their recent efforts to be driver more by marketing (solar panels for ventillation?!?!) and less by their clients (bigger battery, plugin). They only entered the Lithium battery race after they had no choice (GM Volt publicity).
Toyota still deserves a lot of credit for starting up the entire hybrid market when Honda (Insight) and others (GM EV1) gave up.
I just find their recent efforts to be driver more by marketing (solar panels for ventillation?!?!) and less by their clients (bigger battery, plugin). They only entered the Lithium battery race after they had no choice (GM Volt publicity).
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
As others pointed out compressors need a lot of power. I just bought a simple dehumidifier, 6A 120V = 720W
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
BINGO. You'd need satellite-sized solar panels, and it wouldnt hurt if they were outside of the earth atmosphere.
As others pointed out compressors need a lot of power. I just bought a simple dehumidifier, 6A 120V = 720W
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
BINGO. You'd need satellite-sized solar panels, and it wouldnt hurt if they were outside of the earth atmosphere.
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
I should have said that it is commendable that they are trying.
Toyota still deserves a lot of credit for starting up the entire hybrid market when Honda (Insight) and others (GM EV1) gave up.
I just find their recent efforts to be driver more by marketing (solar panels for ventillation?!?!) and less by their clients (bigger battery, plugin). They only entered the Lithium battery race after they had no choice (GM Volt publicity).
Another Japanese manufacturer who shall remain anonymous has already executed the idea of a solar panel sunroof, which generated enough electricity to power a small exhaust fan which cooled the interior of the vehicle while parked in hot sun. They did this in 1990.
I should have said that it is commendable that they are trying.
Toyota still deserves a lot of credit for starting up the entire hybrid market when Honda (Insight) and others (GM EV1) gave up.
I just find their recent efforts to be driver more by marketing (solar panels for ventillation?!?!) and less by their clients (bigger battery, plugin). They only entered the Lithium battery race after they had no choice (GM Volt publicity).
Another Japanese manufacturer who shall remain anonymous has already executed the idea of a solar panel sunroof, which generated enough electricity to power a small exhaust fan which cooled the interior of the vehicle while parked in hot sun. They did this in 1990.
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
As others pointed out compressors need a lot of power. I just bought a simple dehumidifier, 6A 120V = 720W
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
BINGO. You'd need satellite-sized solar panels, and it wouldnt hurt if they were outside of the earth atmosphere.
Well hey, that's where the Prius' tall profile comes in handy... The roof is MUCH closer to the sun than is the case in conventional cars!
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
As others pointed out compressors need a lot of power. I just bought a simple dehumidifier, 6A 120V = 720W
Another problem is that you never get 100% of rated panel power. Depnding on clouds, angle, etc. you tend to get much less, say 70% even in sunny places. So 70% of 200W = 140W vs need 720W
Not even close.
BINGO. You'd need satellite-sized solar panels, and it wouldnt hurt if they were outside of the earth atmosphere.
Well hey, that's where the Prius' tall profile comes in handy... The roof is MUCH closer to the sun than is the case in conventional cars!
I'm currently working on a project with vehicles and solar power. With very good solar panels (NASA stuff) you'll get 1500w out of 6m^2 of panels on a good solar day. There is not 6m^2 of body panels facing the sky on a compact car.
The other thing to consider is an automotive a/c system is nearly the equivalent of a house's a/c system because they have to be able to cool the vehicle quickly with no insulation, metal body, and large windows.
The other thing to consider is an automotive a/c system is nearly the equivalent of a house's a/c system because they have to be able to cool the vehicle quickly with no insulation, metal body, and large windows.
Tom:
As mentioned before, whatever they put up there, I don't think it's in any way intended to be the sole power for the AC system. As you correctly point out, that would be pretty futile.
But do remember that the system in the Prius is especially efficient. It uses a variable speed, electric-driven compressor that of course, is not constantly dragging on the engine like a conventional car's is. The compressor only runs as fast as it needs to to maintain the set temp (all Prii, base to loaded, come with a very, very good auto climate control). Accordingly, there may be plenty of situations when the thing is actually drawing very little juice (mild day, car in shade, so forth).
This idea won't be a end-all panacea, but I suspect they'll make it more effective than many expect.
As mentioned before, whatever they put up there, I don't think it's in any way intended to be the sole power for the AC system. As you correctly point out, that would be pretty futile.
But do remember that the system in the Prius is especially efficient. It uses a variable speed, electric-driven compressor that of course, is not constantly dragging on the engine like a conventional car's is. The compressor only runs as fast as it needs to to maintain the set temp (all Prii, base to loaded, come with a very, very good auto climate control). Accordingly, there may be plenty of situations when the thing is actually drawing very little juice (mild day, car in shade, so forth).
This idea won't be a end-all panacea, but I suspect they'll make it more effective than many expect.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Accordingly, there may be plenty of situations when the thing is actually drawing very little juice (mild day, car in shade, so forth).
Those will probably be the situations where the solar panels aren't producing full power (car in shade, cloudy day, etc).
Accordingly, there may be plenty of situations when the thing is actually drawing very little juice (mild day, car in shade, so forth).
Those will probably be the situations where the solar panels aren't producing full power (car in shade, cloudy day, etc).
ekpolk, I agree with you, toyota isn't going to just toss something up there and claim it solves everything. It will probably be a pretty good system. I just wanted to add some real numbers to the speculation.
I like the idea if it charges the tractor batt. Isn't that the voltage the compressor uses? I can't see the comp running of 12V. Way too much current... If the prius uses a converter from trac batt to 12V then (or does it use an alt?) that's more electronics cost.
Not owning a Prius, I'd think the engineers would have used the tracbatt.
That said, Since the ECU-whatever seems to top them at 80% so that there's always a little room for braking regen, it'd be perfectly fine to let 50W of panels trickle-charge that batt all day long, give it an extra 5% that becomes usable power at key-on.
Then in marketing speak, you can see why it'd be easier to "quantify" or approximate the benefit the driver actually sees. Instead of saying, "This option is good for 3 0-35mph starts or X joules of power..." they say, "This option is basically good for 30 minutes of A/C use."
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Not owning a Prius, I'd think the engineers would have used the tracbatt.
That said, Since the ECU-whatever seems to top them at 80% so that there's always a little room for braking regen, it'd be perfectly fine to let 50W of panels trickle-charge that batt all day long, give it an extra 5% that becomes usable power at key-on.
Then in marketing speak, you can see why it'd be easier to "quantify" or approximate the benefit the driver actually sees. Instead of saying, "This option is good for 3 0-35mph starts or X joules of power..." they say, "This option is basically good for 30 minutes of A/C use."
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