Moly or Boron preference?

[facility1]

how does titanium as a added anti-wear agent come into play in this moly-boron discussion as Kendall,Royal Purple,Castrol and some others use it?

 

[Ronin73]

Statistics have proven it doesn’t matter which one you pick. If all the oils meet the approval, with a large enough sample size, there will be no statistical difference between the oils, pretty much for any possible metric you could possibly think of.

Except price. Using his example of all oils meeting the exact same specs, then what is the preference, then I would say at that point the only preference that would really matter is price. Get the cheaper of the bunch.

 

[nicholas]

We can see both low and high amounts of these anti wear additives in oils. Do you have a preference as to how much is in a oil? Do you like at least a small amount of each?

Is your preference based on how your car sounds or acts? (Quieter, smoother, more mpg) Or is it more an oil knowledge decision, or just a personal preference?

I prefer to see a decent amount of both moly and boron as a personal preference.

I prefer how my engine feels and sounds with more moly.

 

[hemioiler]

I prefer ZDDP around 1500 PPM. I pay no attention to B/Mo levels. Many lubricity tests show that high(er) levels of ZDDP lead to great reduction in wear. In this lubricity test, two Castrol oils of the same viscosity were tested for wear. The oils were identical in composition, only the levels of Zn/P (ZDDP) differed. The higher ZDDP content oil ended with 30 ppm iron in oil vs 80 for the low-ZDDP oil. That is a HUGE difference.

Quote:
"The Castrol Classic GTX basically kicked the snot out of the regular Castrol GTX."
"Way better wear protection, that's because it has more ZDDP"

I have seen no such conclusive results with B/Mo based additives. Forget B/Mo, ZDDP is king.

View attachment 211132

In this case you're looking at one property while holding the others constant, I can see how that can have an effect on reducing wear.

But that doesn't prove that all oils with less ZDDP will automatically perform worse, because ZDDP is not the only way to achieve this goal.

 

[ZZman]

Here let me break it down for you when you ask theoretical questions (in typical Bob is the Oil Guy speak)...

Alright, let's break it down for you in simple terms since you seem to need the extra help: Boron and molybdenum might both be elements, but that's where their similarities end. Boron, with its puny atomic number of 5, is a nonmetal that likes to form compounds like boric acid and borax. It's about reducing friction and wear, making it a favorite in lubricants and even some household cleaners. Molybdenum, on the other hand, is a big show off with an atomic number of 42, landing it in the transition metal category. This is about strength and durability, found in alloys that can withstand high temperatures and tough conditions.
When it comes to their chemical behavior, boron and molybdenum couldn't be more different. Boron likes to play it simple, usually bonding with just three electrons to form compounds. This minimalist approach gives it the ability to reduce friction and wear, making it a handy addition to lubricants. Molybdenum, on the other hand, is a bit of a show-off, with its ability to form compounds with various oxidation states ranging from -2 to +6. This versatility makes it a key player in the industrial world, where it's used in everything from steel production to catalytic converters (and yet every know nothing oil "expert" likes to mention it every time they get constipated).
So, next time you're pondering the differences between boron and molybdenum (your little favorite), just remember: one's a nonmetal that keeps things smooth, and the other's a transition metal that's all about strength. It's not rocket science, but hey, I guess some things are just harder for some people to grasp.

YOU are WELCOME. Next time do a simple Google search, eat a little Greek yogurt and don't ask. Boron rhymes with Moron, remember that the next time you want to play cute.

Wow. Was this condescending attitude really necessary?
The correct and simple answer was you either do or don't have a preference for whatever reason you chose to have that preference.

 

[ZZman]

I think you have a basic misunderstanding here.

These elements are all part of "compounds." For example, ZDDP is as ester compound that has elements of phosphorus, zinc, and sulfur. You don't usually see sulfur reported in VOA's or UOA's because it cost extra to determine and report that element.

Chemical compound: any substance consisting of atoms of two or more chemical elements.

Another compound is MoDTC or molybdenum dithiocarbamate. It is composed of carbon, hydrogen, molybdenum, nitrogen, and sulfur as the total compound. Would you base your oil preferences on an analysis (very costly btw) that showed all of these elements?

In another example, Boron reported may actually be a boronated compound of phosphorylated borate which contains at least two elements.

Compounds of moly and boron are good AW/Anti-scuff compounds but they have to added in balance to achieve a total DI additive package.

As others have stated, a VOA only provides a baseline for comparison to subsequent UOAs.

You have been a member here for 16 years and you have not learned the details about VOAs and UOAs?

I value and appreciate your knowledge on these subjects. However remember that the original question wasn't a scientific based question. It was a preference or opinion question. Don't we all chose our favorite oils based on whatever preferences we chose? Why do some run a Mobil 1 instead on the cheaper Supertech? How are non experts supposed to decide what oil might be better if all these oils at least make minimum specs/approvals?

 

[ka9mnx]

I plan on running either one for 5,000 miles.

At 5k OCI's I would be shopping by price and approvals. In fact, I do!

 

[kschachn]

I value and appreciate your knowledge on these subjects. However remember that the original question wasn't a scientific based question. It was a preference or opinion question. Don't we all chose our favorite oils based on whatever preferences we chose? Why do some run a Mobil 1 instead on the cheaper Supertech? How are non experts supposed to decide what oil might be better if all these oils at least make minimum specs/approvals?

So do you want your preference to be based on color, taste or smell? Because that’s the only ones you’re going to get if you don’t have at least a remedial understanding of basic chemistry and physics. Apparently you do not have that, so all you can do is repeat your mantra of “preferences“ which is a meaningless question in terms of how the oil operates or protects an engine.

We keep pitching, but you keep missing.

 

[doublebase]

Wow. Was this condescending attitude really necessary?
The correct and simple answer was you either do or don't have a preference for whatever reason you chose to have that preference.

Bravo to you sir for answering like that. I was being sarcastic, and it was a joke. Sorry, next time I’ll put more than a smiley face at the end.

 

[Bill_W]

Moly is an element, it is bonded to sulphur in different amounts to form a molecule. It works as intended when the oil gets hot. Boron also is not the straight boron atom just a form that works in oil and works in cold start oil. Not that I know a whole lot about it but they are not a moly or boron thing, they work for the same goal and work together.

 

[ZZman]

So do you want your preference to be based on color, taste or smell? Because that’s the only ones you’re going to get if you don’t have at least a remedial understanding of basic chemistry and physics. Apparently you do not have that, so all you can do is repeat your mantra of “preferences“ which is a meaningless question in terms of how the oil operates or protects an engine.

We keep pitching, but you keep missing.

Why are you still here if this posts irritates you so much K? I don't have extensive knowledge of being a chef or how certain chemical compounds in foods make them what they are and how they taste. But I can tell you I have a preference for pepperoni pizza with extra cheese and sauce.
My preference or anyone's is based on whatever criteria they chose. So Is yours.
Please stop harassing me on my post. Just ignore it. Thank you

 

[ZZman]

So do you want your preference to be based on color, taste or smell? Because that’s the only ones you’re going to get if you don’t have at least a remedial understanding of basic chemistry and physics. Apparently you do not have that, so all you can do is repeat your mantra of “preferences“ which is a meaningless question in terms of how the oil operates or protects an engine.

We keep pitching, but you keep missing.

As stated in the original post, some may feel their engines are quieter, smoother running or maybe get better mpg with high moly. It isn't about color, taste or smell.
And yes I dare say most people here don't have chemistry and physics knowledge.

 

[ZZman]

Bravo to you sir for answering like that. I was being sarcastic, and it was a joke. Sorry, next time I’ll put more than a smiley face at the end.

Thank you.

 

[Bill_W]

I did pick PUP due to the Borate Ester additive.

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[MolaKule]

...But you would say some oils have a better balanced additive package correct?

I would say that most any formulated oil would have the correct balance of additive compounds commensurate with the mix of base oil types of various viscosities.

 

[Bill_W]

I would say that most any formulated oil would have the correct balance of additive compounds commensurate with the mix of base oil types of various viscosities.

Balance is really the key.

 

[MolaKule]

...However remember that the original question wasn't a scientific based question...

You said: "We can see both low and high amounts of these anti wear additives in oils."

OK, That was a scientific comment.

 

[ZZman]

You said: "We can see both low and high amounts of these anti wear additives in oils."

OK, That was a scientific comment.

You got me big fella. But I get your point. Better oils or different additives can allow lower amounts of additives for similar performance.
But how would you decide which oil is "better" out of 6 oils that meet an approval?
Is it impossible, or the oils are so similar it doesn't really matter?

 

[Triple_Se7en]

But how would you decide which oil is "better" out of 6 oils that meet an approval?
Is it impossible, or the oils are so similar it doesn't really matter?

Are you trying to find someone significant here that will say Group II+ / III Supertech Syn is equal to oils carrying Gp 4s / Gp 5s, Esters / PAOs / GTL .....etc?

You Trickster You!!!!!

 

[Astro14]

Is this question because of concerns about your new car that has a turbo engine?