Modern USED CAR buying TIPS & CUSTOMS

[SumpChump]

Looking for modern used car buying tips. I have been familiar with mostly just the NEW car buying game of "lot fees" LOL, invoice vs dealer holdback vs incentives vs demand vs current average sales data etc....

But that seems all out the window with used cars. No data on closed sales averages, no idea what is common markup, no idea what are the leverage "phrases" for used car sales negotiations, no idea what kind or "depth" of inspection is allowed.

Note: I'm mostly speaking about used car lots which are PART of a larger well maintained manufacturer identified new car lot with a big name. Of course I'd also take advice specific to person to person sale (I'm more familiar with that already)

So other than the part i AM familiar with which is the actual intelligent inspection of a used car (overspray, shimmys, noises) ..... I have little clue about the traditions, customs and modern used price haggling techniques, pricing, offer-counter offer, best days and times, haing with "no haggle" lots.

Any tips or links much appreciated.

Context: maybe this is useful to know, I'm looking to purchase a used car / truck valued $7-12k over the next 30frigid snowy days up here in the Northern Midwest USA.

 

[dishdude]

Just buy a new car, that's the worst price range to buy a used car in. If you're buying used, private party is the way to go. I want to meet the person that owned and drove the car.

 

[05LGTLtd]

If looking at prices, run the trade in value for any vehicle you're serious about through kbb. It's pretty close to the wholesale of a used vehicle.

 

[The_Jeff]

The new car franchise is to lend credibility to the used car operation and profit center.

Especially if it's a marque barely holding on by a thread... Suzuki, Saab, Daewoo, Saturn, you know the type.

Get online with autotrader and other search engines and find yourself at dirt lot dealers. More for your money.

Go on a weekday when they're dead. Pack a smart phone and a notebook. Take salesman names, car VINs, offers, counter offers. Let them balk at your lowball offer and walk. When they call back, turn to the page in your notebook with the numbers and make sure you're on the same page.

 

[69GTX]

I've gotten most of my used cars from the 1st or 2nd adult owners, the older the better. But the few times I've gone to new/used car dealers the games are the same. Try to catch them in the last week of the month, quarter, or year (ie right now) for the best deal possible. To do that you need to know market pricing for what you're looking at. I'd suggest looking at auto trader and completed/sold Ebay auctions. Figure that the lower priced 15% of the cars on Autotrader are what they actually sell for. The higher 85% are dreamers and are biding their time until they lower their pricing.

If you know what you can pay, and the seller wants to sell for a fair market value, that should be all there is to it. Whether dealer or private party, arrange to take that vehicle to a local shop/dealer of your choice to get an undercarriage inspection as well as a test drive. That could cost you $50-$75 but would be money well spent if you both parties are already in the ball park on price. KBB pricing tends to be accurate for cars with more than say 55K-60K miles. If you are considering a used car with lower miles and more than 10 years old, KBB will tend to undervalue those miles. That's good for you as the buyer. When checking used cars I've brought a paint gauge with me (a refrigerator door magnet works) to check for repainted areas on the metal body panels, rockers, wheel lips, etc. An $8 "spot rot" gauge from Year One has worked well for me over the past 20 years for spotting repainted areas. A professional can just look at a car and know it's not right, or tap it with their knuckles.

A well kept up maintenance history and fewer number of owners is a plus and what I'd shoot for. Try to avoid a short-tripper car unless you can verify frequent oil changes. A highway driven car will probably have less wear and tear on the drive train. The only custom I know of is to pay no more than you feel the vehicle is worth to you. Walk away from anything else. There's a lot of used "perfumed pigs" at used car lots...even new car lots. When I bought my 2002 with 22K one owner miles I was shocked as heck that it was at a small used car lot (23% of what it cost brand new). They don't normally get cars like that. The same car at CarMax would have run me thousands more. In fact, CarMax was asking the same price for cars with 75K-125K miles! $7K-$12K is a range where you can buy a high quality, lower mileage used car that started out life priced at $25K to $40K. I mentioned in another post today that low mileage cars can be well worth KBB full retail or even more. They often seriously under-price a number of years and models....and overprice others.

 

[Wolf359]

The problem with KBB is that it tends to be on the high side. That's why lots of dealers like to advertise that it's less thank KBB. It can't be very good if everyone can sell for under KBB. The ones that sell over that are usually for bad credit people who have to pay more. Use Nadaguide.com, many insurance companies and even the local registry use it to determine what the real book value of the car is. In theory Nadaguide gets their numbers from dealers that actually sell the cars. Shoot for somewhere between clean trade in and retail. And yes, the best time to buy is the last day or two of the month from a dealership, they always have to make their monthly numbers and will deal at the end of the month.

 

[shiny]

www.Beepi.com

They are awesome. They take all the risk and all the horror out of buying or selling a used car. I'll never go to a dealer again.

They only sell cars in "like new" condition that pass a stringent inspection. (I watched them inspect mine. It took over two hours.)

They promise a better price than a dealer because they don't have costly dealership overhead. They give you a no-lemon guarantee and a 10-day buyback guarantee. Full transparency and no haggling.

No, I don't work for them. I just really like to spread the word because they treated me so well. Honestly, dealing with them felt so "too good to be true" that I kept waiting for the "gotcha!" but it never happened.

 

[69GTX]

The problem with both KBB and NADA is that they tend to be on the low side for cleaner, lower mileage, older vehicles. I found it interesting that for my 2002, NADA gives no additional mileage premium for miles under 100,000. So the value of the car with 20,000 miles is the same at 100,000 miles. Huh? Which of those 2 would you buy for NADA full retail base price of $5,287? One is way over-valued while the other is well under-valued. Use either price guide knowing they have serious flaws in both directions. For my money, I'd rather go after the vehicles they under-price, assuming you can find them priced as such. The dealers tend to know better, the public often doesn't.

I've never bought a new car. You can get almost the same quality in a mint 2-5 year old car with low miles. Why take that 50-70% depreciation hit as long as you can find an owner who took care of their car? My dad (age 70 then) traded in his mint 1993 60K mile Lincoln back in 1997 towards a new one costing $38K. He got $6500 for the trade in. The car was immaculate and got many of those miles driving to and from from Florida. But in his mind, he wanted a new car that would be "trouble free," even if he probably already had a used one that was problem free. I'd have paid him $8500 had I known he was selling it. Ironically, he passed 4 years later and his 1997 with 29K miles went to me for $5,000 (per the estate). I took that car to 230,000 miles over the next 8 years....running on 3K mile Jiffy Lube oil changes.

That Beepi thing sounds interesting. I'll keep that in mind on my next car.

 

[Leo99]

I'd avoid the little private used car lots and stick to the new car dealers' used car lots or the no haggle places like CarMax. The best deals on used cars are on makes/models that are not popular. Looking at used Camrys or Corollas or SUVs or pick up trucks you're better off buying new. You might be able to find a nice deal on a used Hyundai or Kia or Cadillac.

Invoice, lot fees, etc is just noise. You don't need to worry about all that; just worry about knowing your prices on the cars you're interested in and getting a fair price.

 

[expat]

When I buy a used car, I check out the car AND check out the owner!

 

[69GTX]

I've bought 4-5 used cars from new car dealers, and I can say that none of them turned out really well. Two had transmissions that failed well before they should have (75K and 110K mi), another had issues as soon as I got it home, a 4th developed water leaks through the dash at 30K miles.

I've been a lot more satisfied with cars from private parties...about a 75% success rate. It really comes down to getting the right answers to your questions. Maybe car dealers stretch the truth more than private parties do. Any car I've had that lasted a long time with 175K-230K miles, came from a private party. No used car I've bought from a new car dealer ever made it past 125K miles. Of the half dozen cars I've bought from people over 55, they've all worked out well except one. That was a short tripper car that I should have been much more leery of. That one seemed clean at 43K miles, but was toast by 65K miles. And it was really too old at the time I bought it (15 years old). Lesson learned. These days I try to buy something in the 4-7 year old range. I've never bought a used daily driver car with more than 55K miles...lowest was 22K miles. I've had good luck with the 4.6L Ford/Mercury/Lincoln sedans when bought from private parties.

 

[expat]

Re my previous post:

Having said that,

In our area there are plenty of 2-4 year old low mileage cars belonging to newly retired couples, that conclude that they no longer need two cars.

Buying privately is the way to go

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I've bought 4-5 used cars from new car dealers, and I can say that none of them turned out really well. Two had transmissions that failed well before they should have (75K and 110K mi), another had issues as soon as I got it home, a 4th developed water leaks through the dash at 30K miles.

I've been a lot more satisfied with cars from private parties...about a 75% success rate. It really comes down to getting the right answers to your questions. Maybe car dealers stretch the truth more than private parties do. Any car I've had that lasted a long time with 175K-230K miles, came from a private party. No used car I've bought from a new car dealer ever made it past 125K miles. Of the half dozen cars I've bought from people over 55, they've all worked out well except one. That was a short tripper car that I should have been much more leery of. That one seemed clean at 43K miles, but was toast by 65K miles. And it was really too old at the time I bought it (15 years old). Lesson learned. These days I try to buy something in the 4-7 year old range. I've never bought a used daily driver car with more than 55K miles...lowest was 22K miles. I've had good luck with the 4.6L Ford/Mercury/Lincoln sedans when bought from private parties.


I'm not sure you can really make the correlations you're making between used cars from a private party and a dealer. I think the automaker and the particular make have more to do with that than where you bought it from. For instance on my Mercedes, certain years had bad brakes and bad engines, if you avoid those years, you can get a good one no matter who you buy it from.

Also in terms of which is better, it just depends who has the car you want. I'd prefer buying a private party over dealer, but the dealer provides a warranty where you won't get one from a private seller. However some private sellers want as much as the dealer, so the dealer actually ends up being cheaper. They make money on volume. Private sellers feel they have to get as much as they can to minimize the depreciation hit. Dealers don't have that problem, all they have to do is sell it for a little more than they paid.

As for where to look, the usual sites apply, cargurus.com (I like it because it tells you how long it's been on the site, cars there for more than a few months are probably a scam, ones that have only been there a few weeks are probably still there), Autotrader, and cars.

If you're interested in a specific make, try to find a vin decoder, they exist for some cars, but not others. Ford had a good one for a while, but it just stopped working.

And run both Carfax and Autocheck. Autocheck can find accidents that Carfax misses.

Use this site for cheap ones:

http://downloadvin.com/index.html

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I've bought 4-5 used cars from new car dealers, and I can say that none of them turned out really well. Two had transmissions that failed well before they should have (75K and 110K mi), another had issues as soon as I got it home, a 4th developed water leaks through the dash at 30K miles.

I've been a lot more satisfied with cars from private parties...about a 75% success rate. It really comes down to getting the right answers to your questions. Maybe car dealers stretch the truth more than private parties do. Any car I've had that lasted a long time with 175K-230K miles, came from a private party. No used car I've bought from a new car dealer ever made it past 125K miles. Of the half dozen cars I've bought from people over 55, they've all worked out well except one. That was a short tripper car that I should have been much more leery of. That one seemed clean at 43K miles, but was toast by 65K miles. And it was really too old at the time I bought it (15 years old). Lesson learned. These days I try to buy something in the 4-7 year old range. I've never bought a used daily driver car with more than 55K miles...lowest was 22K miles. I've had good luck with the 4.6L Ford/Mercury/Lincoln sedans when bought from private parties.


I'm not sure you can really make the correlations you're making between used cars from a private party and a dealer. I think the automaker and the particular make have more to do with that than where you bought it from. For instance on my Mercedes, certain years had bad brakes and bad engines, if you avoid those years, you can get a good one no matter who you buy it from.

Also in terms of which is better, it just depends who has the car you want. I'd prefer buying a private party over dealer, but the dealer provides a warranty where you won't get one from a private seller. However some private sellers want as much as the dealer, so the dealer actually ends up being cheaper. They make money on volume. Private sellers feel they have to get as much as they can to minimize the depreciation hit. Dealers don't have that problem, all they have to do is sell it for a little more than they paid.

As for where to look, the usual sites apply, cargurus.com (I like it because it tells you how long it's been on the site, cars there for more than a few months are probably a scam, ones that have only been there a few weeks are probably still there), Autotrader, and cars.

If you're interested in a specific make, try to find a vin decoder, they exist for some cars, but not others. Ford had a good one for a while, but it just stopped working.

And run both Carfax and Autocheck. Autocheck can find accidents that Carfax misses.

Use this site for cheap ones:

http://downloadvin.com/index.html


Any advice on how to "properly " complete a private party transaction for $7-10,000 dollars? Somehow giving a check to a stealership seems less risky. I guess that's all in my head. Have my wife witness the signing of the title by the seller, then perhaps a simple bill of sale . How's it work for payment? They come to my bank and a personal banker prints a check in front of their eyes? I know that I'd never give a $10k car keys over just left with a personal check into my hands if I were the seller.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump

Any advice on how to "properly " complete a private party transaction for $7-10,000 dollars? Somehow giving a check to a stealership seems less risky. I guess that's all in my head. Have my wife witness the signing of the title by the seller, then perhaps a simple bill of sale . How's it work for payment? They come to my bank and a personal banker prints a check in front of their eyes? I know that I'd never give a $10k car keys over just left with a personal check into my hands if I were the seller.


I sold my Terrain to someone for $26k. Their credit union cut me a check.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump

Any advice on how to "properly " complete a private party transaction for $7-10,000 dollars? Somehow giving a check to a stealership seems less risky. I guess that's all in my head. Have my wife witness the signing of the title by the seller, then perhaps a simple bill of sale . How's it work for payment? They come to my bank and a personal banker prints a check in front of their eyes? I know that I'd never give a $10k car keys over just left with a personal check into my hands if I were the seller.


If your buyer wants to finance, then, yeah, at the bank. Or if your state needs notarizing on the title.

It might not be a bad idea to check the title against the seller's license and the car's registration, and he might want to see yours. I've done a bunch of private party buys and sells and have only been "carded" once. You may have to go on faith.

You may also, if a suspicious sort, want to take instant delivery of the car after you pay for it. Throw some old plates on (illegal) and take possession.

If I'm selling a car and a buyer asks "too many" (a dozen) questions they aren't going to get the best price from me. I want them to hit the road, as they seem like the type to annoy me later when the ashtray light burns out. ("You didn't tell me... you sold me a lemon")

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I've bought 4-5 used cars from new car dealers, and I can say that none of them turned out really well. Two had transmissions that failed well before they should have (75K and 110K mi), another had issues as soon as I got it home, a 4th developed water leaks through the dash at 30K miles.


If you really can't look over a used car and tell if it has problems, perhaps when purchasing you should consider taking it to a qualified mechanic, or at least a neighbor who knows what they're doing.

 

[Kestas]

For one purchase some time ago, I accompanied the seller to his bank to complete the $6000 cash transaction.

 

[HerrStig]

Just don't meet a seller you found on one of those "lists" in back of deserted warehouse for the "buy of a lifetime" with cash.

 

[69GTX]

After buying about 2 dozen used cars over 38 years, I stand by what I've learned. The daily driver cars I've owned since 1988 have been the full sized Ford/Merc/Lincoln 4.6L version. So that track record of dealer vs. private party is with the same type of vehicle. When something works, I stay with it. After several bad experiences with dealers in the 1980's I moved to private parties starting in 1988. Several of those cars did go to my mechanic for an inspection. They never found anything critical that I didn't already have a concern about. Early transmission failures are a killer though. I did much of the work on my 9 Mopar muscle cars in the 1990's. I can turn a wrench.

I've usually paid in cash for private party used cars. If they take a cashier's check that's fine too. I'm usually back within 24 hrs to take it home. You get a pretty good idea if they are on the level and "good" people after spending a few hours with them and seeing where they live, etc. Buying from elderly folks doesn't hurt. You know where these guys live, you have a signed title, bill of sale, odometer miles filled in on title, and your insurance company coverage is put into effect. The car is yours and it's covered. If you have concerns they might trash the car before you return with a temp plate then bring along a trusted friend who can verify the condition of the car with the you in case it "changes" considerably after your return. Record the mileage. Take both sets of keys. Have them park it outside where it's safe and not stuck in their garage if the house burns down...whatever suits you.

I've never had a problem though after a couple dozen purchases. You could also work with the owner and drive the car to a 3rd party for safe keeping, or have them drive it to your home if it's close enough. I've done that too and driven them home. There are lots of ways to do it. Despite my worst fears, there's never been an issue with transferring title/car. The only incident I ran into once on a long distance buy for a collector car was that the owner didn't have the title in hand...the bank had it since he still owned money it. This won't be a concern to you since you'll be right there in person verifying all the documents. I guess people could fake a title. But, if they have years of maintenance records and other proof of ownership, the odds of counterfeit documents fall off the cliff. There are ways of checking them out further if you feel the need.

It's even better when they can show you recent maintenance for newer brakes, tires, exhaust, shocks, suspension, etc....things that could wear out in the 40K-60K mile range. I don't want to mess with used cars with 80-100K miles as it's pot luck up that high...at least for GM/Ford/Chevy. Never got the bug for Toyotas, Nissans, Audi, etc. etc. I ask more than a dozen questions when I buy a car. And when I sell, I give the prospective buyers a laundry list of everything I've done to the car or know about, including flaws. I don't want anyone coming back to me saying they "didn't know that." Often that scares people away. They're rather buy something from a person who says there car is perfect. If any seller can't list a couple dozen flaws on their 50K mile car, they aren't looking very hard.