Apple - A Message to Our Customers

[Trav]

I know nothing about it but if the phone had icloud enabled it might be easier to just get it that way if Apple provides their account info.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

People take keeping their personal information pretty seriously these days with all the scamming, etc going on - and rightly so.

The irony is that most actual security breaches are things that no encryption could possibly fix, and here we are demanding encryption... Similar story with natural security. Terrorism kills few people and is basically impossible to eradicate, while there are other things that kill lots of people and can be greatly reduced. And look what we spend our blood, sweat, and tears on.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

No need for any risks. Simply have Apple develop the allegedly needed software in house and use it on the one phone. Simple. Then give the data to the FBI.

Isn't that begging for chain of custody issues? Also, once the phone is unlocked, the FBI could reverse-engineer the firmware. Either way, this isn't really about this one phone. It's about the precedent. The idea that the FBI could force a company to make a broadly applicable security hack for its own devices is pretty chilling.

Please re-read. I said DATA only. Apple could easily do this while giving absolutely no special software keys or anything revealing to the FBI. My issue is Apple has done this hundreds of times already. Why is this phone so special? And since it's user (not owner) was a mass murderer it would seem the right thing to do. I'd love to have absolute security on my phone but not if it protects folks who murder innocent citizens...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

No need for any risks. Simply have Apple develop the allegedly needed software in house and use it on the one phone. Simple. Then give the data to the FBI.

Isn't that begging for chain of custody issues? Also, once the phone is unlocked, the FBI could reverse-engineer the firmware. Either way, this isn't really about this one phone. It's about the precedent. The idea that the FBI could force a company to make a broadly applicable security hack for its own devices is pretty chilling.

Please re-read. I said DATA only. Apple could easily do this while giving absolutely no special software keys or anything revealing to the FBI.

Respectfully, Steve, I'm not the one who has to re-read. The phone's contents are evidence. If Apple retrieves them before handing them to the FBI, that will be one link in the evidence's chain of custody that wasn't under the FBI's control. If Apple then hands the unlocked phone with the new firmware back to the FBI before wiping it, that would give the FBI the opportunity to reverse engineer the hack. Reverse engineering is not the same as being handed something. Others in this thread seem to think those concerns aren't necessary or applicable. But they did see that I WAS talking about data, not firmware.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

My issue is Apple has done this hundreds of times already. Why is this phone so special?

Apple says they've never made a custom version of an OS that bypasses a security setting that was positively chosen by the user. That's what (they say) is different about this case.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

And since it's user (not owner) was a mass murderer it would seem the right thing to do. I'd love to have absolute security on my phone but not if it protects folks who murder innocent citizens...

You know the answer to that as well as I do. What's moral for one particular case and what makes sense as a law or policy aren't always the same.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Thanks for the clarification. I obviously do not see it quite the same as you do, where I am coming from the lives of innocent folks are much more important than phone security. This was a heinous crime, and there were many who helped these two murderers which we might have been able to find if we had the info off this phone two months ago. Frankly, at this time the info may be nearly useless anyway. As Uncle Dave pointed out, with politics involved and the ridiculous inefficiencies of our various agencies tasked with protecting us we are unlikely to ever know the real agenda here.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: spasm3

Originally Posted By: grampi

This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...

Many people died to earn and protect our freedom and privacy from goverment. Lets not give it up too easily.

I'm not advocating we give up our privacy, but many in this thread seem to think privacy is more important than national security...it isn't...

 

[rat]

Originally Posted By: LotI

Originally Posted By: Stewie

Originally Posted By: hatt

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Can't they take the thing apart, remove the memory chip then do a raw copy? I can't believe they're that stupid. Everything is crackable. Everything. What a bunch of grandstanding bull.

There is this thing, called encryption.

Encryption can be easily decrypted.

The belief is the user of the phone has activated The "delete" function of the iPhone. It causes complete data erasure if the wrong password is entered 10 times. I'm with Apple on this. My rights are being trampled enough.

What rights of yours are being trampled?

 

[Andrew1972]

I wonder why they are so convinced this person used his personal iPhone that likely has cute pics of their now orphan kid and facebook installed. A burner cell for privy communications seems like a normal route for these folks to communicate.

 

[rshaw125]

The US government has shown time and time again they cannot be trusted. The terrorists/refugees in San Bernadino should never have been allowed into the country. Who invited them in? The US government.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: madRiver

I wonder why they are so convinced this person used his personal iPhone that likely has cute pics of their now orphan kid and facebook installed. A burner cell for privy communications seems like a normal route for these folks to communicate.

They do not care about this phone. They know there is little to no valuable info they don't already know on it. They care about the millions of other phones they'll have access to if this becomes precedent.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:

My issue is Apple has done this hundreds of times already. Why is this phone so special?

Because this phone is running the newer OS.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125

The US government has shown time and time again they cannot be trusted. The terrorists/refugees in San Bernadino should never have been allowed into the country. Who invited them in? The US government.

You can thank our gov for not enforcing immigration laws for that...

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Originally Posted By: rshaw125

The US government has shown time and time again they cannot be trusted. The terrorists/refugees in San Bernadino should never have been allowed into the country. Who invited them in? The US government.

You can thank our gov for not enforcing immigration laws for that...

Not in these cases. The US government granted legal entry. Just like they did to the Boston bombers. Shining the spotlight on Apple ignores the real culprits. Washington.

 

[DBMaster]

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin Not 100% applicable here, but we have given up a lot since 2001 and gained very little.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

What gets me here is that terrorism, in terms of American lives lost per year, is basically a non-issue next to other more easily solvable problems -- and yet here we are, hemmorhaging blood and treasure, and risking our civil rights. We are doing all of this out of fear. We would do well to ask ourselves whether that's how we want to be. If our concerns were actually proportionate to real dangers, we would be living in a VERY different country, and probably a different world.

And what other man made" problem" has proved it can kill thousands at one time?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

What gets me here is that terrorism, in terms of American lives lost per year, is basically a non-issue next to other more easily solvable problems -- and yet here we are, hemmorhaging blood and treasure, and risking our civil rights. We are doing all of this out of fear. We would do well to ask ourselves whether that's how we want to be. If our concerns were actually proportionate to real dangers, we would be living in a VERY different country, and probably a different world.

And what other man made" problem" has proved it can kill thousands at one time?

Overbearing governments have proven over and over and over and over again to kill millions at a time.