Apple - A Message to Our Customers

[PandaBear]

In general, if they want to break into something, big brother has many supercomputer that they can use to break in the phone. Big brother also already has all the information from phone records, email, sms, iMessages, and other stuff. I do not see why they need to open up this one phone to get a few selfies. What they want to do, it seems to me, is to open up a precedence so that in the future they can ask for more one off jobs. What's scary is that if one government can do it, all other governments can do it too. So if someone from US gov travel to Russia they can hold ransom to a US company to ask for a one off job to open up his phone / laptop, all because US gov has already done it. Scary isn't it?

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Sounds like the newer iPhones are much more secure than the older models, and that this is new ground even for Apple. But I'm sure they could get into this phone provided it is done under their total control and the FBI gets zero technology to use in any way, shape or form.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: hatt

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: hatt

From what I remember hearing the other day all the FBI needs Apple to do is to prevent the phone from erasing the data after too many incorrect login attempts. Then they can simply guess until they get it which is pretty easy if it's just a pin.

Apparently, the phone has already encrypted the data ... maybe the FBI didn't guess correctly on the PIN in the 10 free trys.

Isn't the data already encrypted? I though the incorrect attempts would erase the phone.

You can always unsolder the flash memory out of the phone and extract the raw bits and bytes, then hack it on a few super computers.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Vikas

All the noise is about something else and NOT about the phone per se.

Yup its classic misdirection. NSA/DHS/FBI and C&I all failed us miserably. They had many many chances to stop these guys- they fit every alarm profile in the book and they were even bragging on Facebook! The guys were looking at the wrong things, and dropped the ball and they are desperately looking to change the story line. Hold their feet to the fire and make them accountable - they had all the tools and power they needed to stop this from happening. Wake up people.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Vikas

what I am still not getting is 3) Chop the finger off the cadaver and de-crypt the phone and get it over with. All the noise is about something else and NOT about the phone per se.

Now if they didn't use fingerprint to lock the phone, that wouldn't work. My prints are all bad due to dry skins, so I don't use finger prints at all.

 

[GMFan]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: Vikas

what I am still not getting is 3) Chop the finger off the cadaver and de-crypt the phone and get it over with. All the noise is about something else and NOT about the phone per se.

Now if they didn't use fingerprint to lock the phone, that wouldn't work. My prints are all bad due to dry skins, so I don't use finger prints at all.

The phone is question is a 5c which doesn't have fingerprint capability.

 

[turtlevette]

Do all you anti government folks realize there are sophisticated programs crawling around the web that flag you as anti government? They already know you based on the other side of your device. There is no need to get into your device. You talk about this like you think its some sort of victory for you.

 

[Vikas]

Regardless, the entire case is there to "seize the opportunity". It has nothing to do with 14 victims or 2 terrorists.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Originally Posted By: hatt

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: hatt

From what I remember hearing the other day all the FBI needs Apple to do is to prevent the phone from erasing the data after too many incorrect login attempts. Then they can simply guess until they get it which is pretty easy if it's just a pin.

Apparently, the phone has already encrypted the data ... maybe the FBI didn't guess correctly on the PIN in the 10 free trys.

Isn't the data already encrypted? I though the incorrect attempts would erase the phone.

You can always unsolder the flash memory out of the phone and extract the raw bits and bytes, then hack it on a few super computers.

They would try that if they only wanted to unlock one phone.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Vikas

Regardless, the entire case is there to "seize the opportunity". It has nothing to do with 14 victims or 2 terrorists.

Exactly. There's nothing really valuable on that phone. They already know everyone who he called or text. Or any apps he used. The way the .gov talks he has the ISIS 10 year plan and all their agents tucked away in there. Reality says that if he was in contact with someone they gave him minimal information.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: hatt

This article give a pretty good explanation. http://blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/17/apple-can-comply-with-the-fbi-court-order/

Yes, that's a good analysis of the situation and covers the fact that with IOS 8+ Apple cannot just "get the data" like many seem to think they can do. With the device contents being encrypted you have to go through the lock screen to gain access to the contents.

 

[Dwight_Frye]

Tim Cook is a weasel, just like Zuckerberg. He should have just shut up and quietly helped the FBI instead of getting all self rightgeous and self important. My guess is that he's now in a cover up mode because he knows that a lot of people are thinking his argument may sound good on the surface but he's too much of an ideologue to actually do something that might help the FBI. And he'll lose customers as a result.

 

[javacontour]

Apparently they don't work. If they didn't see what the SB group was planning, I have little to worry about Either that or they are targeting the wrong population. Maybe instead of going after those who believe in personal responsibility and small federal government they should focus attention on those who actually want to kill US citizens. The role of government should not be to protect government from citizens. It should always be to protect citizens. Government works at the will of We the People, not the other way around.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Do all you anti government folks realize there are sophisticated programs crawling around the web that flag you as anti government? They already know you based on the other side of your device. There is no need to get into your device. You talk about this like you think its some sort of victory for you.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Dwight_Frye

Tim Cook is a weasel, just like Zuckerberg. He should have just shut up and quietly helped the FBI instead of getting all self rightgeous and self important. My guess is that he's now in a cover up mode because he knows that a lot of people are thinking his argument may sound good on the surface but he's too much of an ideologue to actually do something that might help the FBI. And he'll lose customers as a result.

Don't you get it? It would impact Apple's sales if now government can ask for more one offs. Foreign sales, like in China, Russia, comprise of a big piece of Apple sales, would tank.

 

[uc50ic4more]

One thing I have not yet seen mentioned much is that there may some legal value in obligating companies to facilitate this encryption-breaking: eg. Even if the FBI, CIA, NSA et al. can or could break the encryption there may be difficulties in having that acquired data used in a court of law (having been retrieved using not-so-above-board means and methods). I suspect that if the gov't mandates companies to provide sought-after data for them then that data would be admissible. This opinion, of course, comes from someone who is neither a U.S. citizen nor a legal expert; but I *am* a member of an internet discussion forum, and therefore feel compelled to say something.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: grampi

This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...

Many people died to earn and protect our freedom and privacy from goverment. Lets not give it up too easily.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

If you guys feel so strongly about privacy then we need to get rid of the TSA too. It's inconvenient and intrusive for them to go through our stuff and patt us down.

Absolutely yes! The security theatre is a waste of time and everyone knows it!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Nick R

There are a lot of real "smart guys" who think they know something about technology, that in reality have no real knowledge, posting on this thread. I've stayed out of it till now, but I'm done. For those who think encryption is easily decryptable, this just shows you do not understand how encryption actually works. Let me break it down for you. The iphone uses 256 bit AES encryption. That is twice as long a key as 128 bit. To crack 256 bit AES encryption using the fastest supercomputer currently in existence, it would take 3.31 x 10^56 years to brute force the key. Let me put htis in perspective. It would take 1 billion, billion years to crack a 128 bit encrypted file. Consider, the age of the universe is 13.5 billion years. It is essentially impossible with modern technology, to brute-force AES encryption. So get that thought out of your pretty little head. Now, the other thing at stake here, and what apple is concerned about, is that if they create a backdoor, as the government wants them to do, the only real way to do this is create a copy of the encryption key on that computer somewhere- or to be aware of what that key is. Either way, you now have an extremely perilous situation, because you have either a single point-of-failure system. You either have a single encryption key known only by apple. Even if you have an individual key for each iphone, apple would have to have a copy of that key, to comply with future requests like this. Obviously, as apple said, they don't want to to this, and they shouldn't. But this is basically what the FBI wants. They want them to build in a master key, or keep a record of the key for each phone in the event they want to access it. Apple is trying to prevent this backdoor from being put in place. This isn't even a government only problem. Even if we assume the government would ever abuse this (looking at you, NSA), then it's still lreaving a gaping hole for other bad actors, from other governments, or just your standard "black hat" hackers, who want to access your device. All you have is a single point of failure now- those master keys. You no longer have the safety net of a nearly uncrackable encryption system. If someone can access those keys, you are done.

If i read this right, doing this would basically put them one disgruntled employee away from catastrophe.

Quote:

There is no solution here which accomplishes anything good. I'm glad apple is standing up for this. The amount of fear resulting from these attacks is insanely overreactive, and I'm very worried it's going to result in more things like this, where we give up more privacy in the name of security. Because

Originally Posted By: GMFan

This is an obstruction of justice. If the FBI rolls over they will be an embarrassment. Why would Apple gets a free pass? If this were anyone else they'd be charged with obstruction. This is no doubt a political move by Apple. Apple has admitted that it has unlocked phones dozens of times last year. Why won't they do it now? Is it because of the religious affiliation of the perps? Tim Cook should be hauled off to jail. The IRS crooks throw people in jail over small tax issues yet 2 Mooslems slaughter over a dozen people and Apple is impeding the investigation. How are people defending this?

The fact that you said "mooslims" means you immediately lose all credibility, due to your racist statements. Go fall in a hole. Ignoring that, The government is demanding apple comprimise the security of all it's customers to accomplish basically nothing. The fear of terrorism is so over exaggerated. Far more people are killed by accidental firearm discharge, or motor vehicle collisions, and the common cold, than are killed by terrorists in this country. I guess you don't care, but I am not willing to give up security and privacy so they can gain minimal information they don't already have.

Spot on. I honestly hope Apple's bigwigs are willing to skip the country rather than complying.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Dwight_Frye

Tim Cook is a weasel, just like Zuckerberg. He should have just shut up and quietly helped the FBI instead of getting all self rightgeous and self important. My guess is that he's now in a cover up mode because he knows that a lot of people are thinking his argument may sound good on the surface but he's too much of an ideologue to actually do something that might help the FBI. And he'll lose customers as a result.

More like the other way around. News article alluded that if Apple was seen by the public as giving in and allowing FBI/Gov't to have backdoor access on their personal devices any time they wanted, then they just lost all security to their personal information. And even more so, if the code somehow was compromised and low lifes were able to get hold of it to gain access into anyone's secure phone. People take keeping their personal information pretty seriously these days with all the scamming, etc going on - and rightly so.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

As many times as the Gov't databases have been hacked, I wouldn't trust them with any kind of info or data like the master keys to un-encrypt anything like people's cell phones, etc. Their cyber security sucks. https://www.opm.gov/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-incidents/

+10000000000000000000000000000000000