Modern Motor Oil Esters

[crashz]

Touche` Brian. Good story.

I think the lubrication industry has gotten well past the Wright Bros. stage in oil developement, but it seems obvious to me that further developements are inevitable. Esters are in the future, and as much as we don't want to be guinea pigs, we are anyway. Every time a new technology emerges the people who use it are the test beds to a certain degree.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Reid:
Once only the front elevator saved Wilbur.

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This is a classic case of why it pays to be a simpleton. I always thought that Wilbur was saved by taking the back stairs. Oh dopey me!

 

[dropitby]

Great Thread MolaKule.

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by dropitby:
Great Thread MolaKule.

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Ditto , you da man

 

[harrydog]

What's amusing to me is that people like Brian Reid seem to actually believe they're impressing someone with their clever little responses.

 

[Brian Reid]

quote:

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harrydog:
What's amusing to me is that people like Brian Reid seem to actually believe they're impressing someone with their clever little responses.

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What's amusing to me is that people like Harry Dog seem to actually believe ....

 

[Brian Reid]

quote:

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MolaKule:

I truly believe most people on BITOG have attempted to address and answer Mr Reid in the most civil manner possible.

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You do understand ironic humor.

You "won" several posts ago.

The rest is commentary by, or in response to, you and your little friends.

 

[crashz]

Believe what Brian?

- A professional’s educated opinion and publications to back up his statements?

- Or your sarcastic jabs at us?

 

[pmt]

quote:

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Mobil 1 which has a track record, extensive field tests (they learned their lesson with the aviation Mobil 1

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I'm hoping that things have settled down on this thread's subject enough for me to ask a question - the answer to which I have been trying track down for some time. "What is the real story on the Mobil AV-1 synth oil scandal?" In bit and pieces I've learned that there were two major problems: 1) The AV-1 synth oil could not handle (absorb) the very high lead used in aircraft gasolines. 2) There was severe rusting inside the engines due to the oil draining off the parts during the usual long out-of-use period aircraft endure.
Can anyone confirm if I have the basic story right? And if so, was AV-1 a high percentage ester based or PAO based oil - or what?
Thanks for any help.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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I know Redlines two cycle oil has caused major corrosion issue in engines I have ran it in, but Mobil and others ester oil has not. All esters are not equal. Some may have issues and other may not.

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And again, it may NOT have been the esters at all, but the additive package.

 

[blano]

Molakule, Thats might be the case, but when I was having these problems Redlines head chemist basicly told me that the issue could not be resolved with out changing the base oil. This tells me Redline was using a unstable(in the presence of water)ester for this application.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

I don't know a lot about 2cycle, but you were also not using it in it's recommended application. The race oil is not recommended for lawn & garden equipment. You should have been using All Sport.

Was your gas part ethanol by chance?

 

[buster]

quote:

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Molakule, Thats might be the case, but when I was having these problems Redlines head chemist basicly told me that the issue could not be resolved with out changing the base oil. This tells me Redline was using a unstable(in the presence of water)ester for this application.

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Roy also couldnt' explain the high Pb associated with RL UOAs. To those that race their cars and or don't worry about these things, continue to use RL. For those hesitant, I'd avoid it. I'm one of them.

But as MK said, it could be from a number of things. GC is high ester but shows no problems and continues to outperform other oils. So either it's a different ester or maybe has a better additive package.

 

[blano]

[QUOTEThe race oil is not recommended for lawn & garden equipment.] [/QUOTE]
The application was full mod mx bikes and big bore snomobile engines not lawn and garden equipment. Many other have had this same problem FWIW. BTW no ethanol in the gas either.
BTW The chemist at Redline could have been full of it as he didnt seem to have a full grasp of the situation when I talked to him.

 

[buster]

quote:

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BTW The chemist at Redline could have been full of it as he didnt seem to have a full grasp of the situation when I talked to him.

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Roy seems like a nice guy but he couldn't explain the Pb either with RL. Didn't quite like that.

I've also heard their quality control is not as good as it should be. When I had the Synergyn guy on the phone asking him about whether their oils were PAO or POE he told me RL is a lot of hype.

[ August 11, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[MolaKule]

But Lilienthal, Mach, and others produced the aerodynamic equations to get things started.

It takes both scientists and engineers to accomplish major breakthroughs.

Many engineers are PhD's as well.

 

[blano]

I know Redlines two cycle oil has caused major corrosion issue in engines I have ran it in, but Mobil and others ester oil has not. All esters are not equal. Some may have issues and other may not.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Sorry must have been thinking of someone else. I know somebody posted complaints of RL race 2stroke and they were using it in lawn equip.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

buster there could be a lot of explanations. For one, why should he tell you why if he did know. All you need to know is it's harmless. If he does know it would have cost him a lot of research and education to figure out. Why give it away.
Probably more likely is he doesn't care about UOA. There are other test methods available to verify lubricants function.

 

[MolaKule]

Buster,

I would say, would you not jab a competitor if you had the chance. Of course, I would NEVER think of carrying out such a dastardly thing!

I fear Mr. Howell (don't know him, never met him, not making excuses for him) may not have known the full context of your question. Let's say I have a beakerfull of XYZ that I am analyzing or mixing and it's exothermic (gives off heat) and someone calls me on the phone. Where do think my focus is going to be?

[Seriously though, anyone fielding technical questions should not have a beakerfull of ANYTHING in his hand or even be in the lab].

Did you ever send him a listing of BITOG UOA's with Redline results as suggested, as ask him to comment?