If there is no big hangup with mfg approval then why did you spend the remainder of your post saying to use mfg approved oil?
TBN and TAN in ester oils, excellent info!
- Thread starter saaber1
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If an arguement can be made by stating that OEM does thorough testing for the particular application (your own car) and themselves do indeed do UOA's and engine breakdowns to test this point, then determine which oil is best suited for the application, why change from what OEM recommends then?
My vehicle came from the factory filled with M1 10/30. Over the years I have tweaked and tuned the motor, but all the major aspects of it, Block, Turbo are completely stock. Why would any deviate from the OEM fill? If your car came from the factory with an Group 5 oil in it, then maybe you should stick with a group 5 since the motor was tested that way? Same applies to group 4's.
I doubt that OEM finds the "cheapest" they can put in a motor. Not now a days with more and more 100K OEM warranties. But then again, maybe OEM thinks people just wont keep their cars that long?
It has been said that Esters take heat and loads better, but doesnt most major brand synthetic oils all have some esters in it? I feel, for most, you can use what the OEM recommends and drive your car for 200K miles and have no oil related failures. So are we, as "enthusists" our own worst enemies by trying to find the "better" product?
Is that the appeal? Trying to up one on OEM? I have been told by so many Shops that work on my particular car to use this oil, this weight, that weight, but when I say, "why can't I just use what came with it? M1" They look at me like Im stupid. On the Forums, I bring up M1 and I get bashed again. "oh that oil sucks, you need a 50W, oh use this, oh use that" "you need an ester base, you need a PAO base" and Im thinking, isn't M1 both? So???
There are so many knowledgable folks here. Just amazes me, but from my own experience from calling M1, RP, RL etc they ALL claim to be the best, and all recommend that I use "their" oil in my car. M1 gets the nod so far because its what came in my car.
To a consumer, its very confusing, and very tough to find out what works and what doesn't. It takes miles and miles, and change interval after change interval to get UOA's done. By the time you test all the oils to see which one works best, your car will havae 200K on it and you will want a new car anyway. haha.
In essence, as stated. We are our own worst enemies. People make fortunes off of us. As long as my car holds up in the process all power to them, and shame on us for biting on the hype.
Just my 10 cents. Sorry had to vent.
My vehicle came from the factory filled with M1 10/30. Over the years I have tweaked and tuned the motor, but all the major aspects of it, Block, Turbo are completely stock. Why would any deviate from the OEM fill? If your car came from the factory with an Group 5 oil in it, then maybe you should stick with a group 5 since the motor was tested that way? Same applies to group 4's.
I doubt that OEM finds the "cheapest" they can put in a motor. Not now a days with more and more 100K OEM warranties. But then again, maybe OEM thinks people just wont keep their cars that long?
It has been said that Esters take heat and loads better, but doesnt most major brand synthetic oils all have some esters in it? I feel, for most, you can use what the OEM recommends and drive your car for 200K miles and have no oil related failures. So are we, as "enthusists" our own worst enemies by trying to find the "better" product?
Is that the appeal? Trying to up one on OEM? I have been told by so many Shops that work on my particular car to use this oil, this weight, that weight, but when I say, "why can't I just use what came with it? M1" They look at me like Im stupid. On the Forums, I bring up M1 and I get bashed again. "oh that oil sucks, you need a 50W, oh use this, oh use that" "you need an ester base, you need a PAO base" and Im thinking, isn't M1 both? So???
There are so many knowledgable folks here. Just amazes me, but from my own experience from calling M1, RP, RL etc they ALL claim to be the best, and all recommend that I use "their" oil in my car. M1 gets the nod so far because its what came in my car.
To a consumer, its very confusing, and very tough to find out what works and what doesn't. It takes miles and miles, and change interval after change interval to get UOA's done. By the time you test all the oils to see which one works best, your car will havae 200K on it and you will want a new car anyway. haha.
In essence, as stated. We are our own worst enemies. People make fortunes off of us. As long as my car holds up in the process all power to them, and shame on us for biting on the hype.
Just my 10 cents. Sorry had to vent.
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Quote:
The retired Director said that the performance of their Approved lubricants was very consistent regardless of Brand and that he saw no benefit from using high cost synthetic lubricants. In other words, following the OCIs and Approved lubricant List gave consistent performance
Agree.
The retired Director said that the performance of their Approved lubricants was very consistent regardless of Brand and that he saw no benefit from using high cost synthetic lubricants. In other words, following the OCIs and Approved lubricant List gave consistent performance
Agree.
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
If an arguement can be made by stating that OEM does thorough testing for the particular application (your own car) and themselves do indeed do UOA's and engine breakdowns to test this point, then determine which oil is best suited for the application, why change from what OEM recommends then?
My vehicle came from the factory filled with M1 10/30. Over the years I have tweaked and tuned the motor, but all the major aspects of it, Block, Turbo are completely stock. Why would any deviate from the OEM fill? If your car came from the factory with an Group 5 oil in it, then maybe you should stick with a group 5 since the motor was tested that way? Same applies to group 4's.
I doubt that OEM finds the "cheapest" they can put in a motor. Not now a days with more and more 100K OEM warranties. But then again, maybe OEM thinks people just wont keep their cars that long?
It has been said that Esters take heat and loads better, but doesnt most major brand synthetic oils all have some esters in it? I feel, for most, you can use what the OEM recommends and drive your car for 200K miles and have no oil related failures. So are we, as "enthusists" our own worst enemies by trying to find the "better" product?
Is that the appeal? Trying to up one on OEM? I have been told by so many Shops that work on my particular car to use this oil, this weight, that weight, but when I say, "why can't I just use what came with it? M1" They look at me like Im stupid. On the Forums, I bring up M1 and I get bashed again. "oh that oil sucks, you need a 50W, oh use this, oh use that" "you need an ester base, you need a PAO base" and Im thinking, isn't M1 both? So???
There are so many knowledgable folks here. Just amazes me, but from my own experience from calling M1, RP, RL etc they ALL claim to be the best, and all recommend that I use "their" oil in my car. M1 gets the nod so far because its what came in my car.
To a consumer, its very confusing, and very tough to find out what works and what doesn't. It takes miles and miles, and change interval after change interval to get UOA's done. By the time you test all the oils to see which one works best, your car will havae 200K on it and you will want a new car anyway. haha.
In essence, as stated. We are our own worst enemies. People make fortunes off of us. As long as my car holds up in the process all power to them, and shame on us for biting on the hype.
Just my 10 cents. Sorry had to vent.
+1
If an arguement can be made by stating that OEM does thorough testing for the particular application (your own car) and themselves do indeed do UOA's and engine breakdowns to test this point, then determine which oil is best suited for the application, why change from what OEM recommends then?
My vehicle came from the factory filled with M1 10/30. Over the years I have tweaked and tuned the motor, but all the major aspects of it, Block, Turbo are completely stock. Why would any deviate from the OEM fill? If your car came from the factory with an Group 5 oil in it, then maybe you should stick with a group 5 since the motor was tested that way? Same applies to group 4's.
I doubt that OEM finds the "cheapest" they can put in a motor. Not now a days with more and more 100K OEM warranties. But then again, maybe OEM thinks people just wont keep their cars that long?
It has been said that Esters take heat and loads better, but doesnt most major brand synthetic oils all have some esters in it? I feel, for most, you can use what the OEM recommends and drive your car for 200K miles and have no oil related failures. So are we, as "enthusists" our own worst enemies by trying to find the "better" product?
Is that the appeal? Trying to up one on OEM? I have been told by so many Shops that work on my particular car to use this oil, this weight, that weight, but when I say, "why can't I just use what came with it? M1" They look at me like Im stupid. On the Forums, I bring up M1 and I get bashed again. "oh that oil sucks, you need a 50W, oh use this, oh use that" "you need an ester base, you need a PAO base" and Im thinking, isn't M1 both? So???
There are so many knowledgable folks here. Just amazes me, but from my own experience from calling M1, RP, RL etc they ALL claim to be the best, and all recommend that I use "their" oil in my car. M1 gets the nod so far because its what came in my car.
To a consumer, its very confusing, and very tough to find out what works and what doesn't. It takes miles and miles, and change interval after change interval to get UOA's done. By the time you test all the oils to see which one works best, your car will havae 200K on it and you will want a new car anyway. haha.
In essence, as stated. We are our own worst enemies. People make fortunes off of us. As long as my car holds up in the process all power to them, and shame on us for biting on the hype.
Just my 10 cents. Sorry had to vent.
+1
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2010
- Messages
- 1,663
Thanks for the replies guys and gals,I know it was kinda off topic, but just had to vent on all you
Makes me feel better that im not the only one that feels this way.
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I suppose the reasons people have for deviating from OEM oil recommendations are similar to the reasons they have for deviating from the OEM exhaust, turbo, wheels, brake parts, suspension parts, etc.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I suppose the reasons people have for deviating from OEM oil recommendations are similar to the reasons they have for deviating from the OEM exhaust, turbo, wheels, brake parts, suspension parts, etc.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Agreed
I suppose the reasons people have for deviating from OEM oil recommendations are similar to the reasons they have for deviating from the OEM exhaust, turbo, wheels, brake parts, suspension parts, etc.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Agreed
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I suppose the reasons people have for deviating from OEM oil recommendations are similar to the reasons they have for deviating from the OEM exhaust, turbo, wheels, brake parts, suspension parts, etc.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Exactly right. In defense of certain OEM parts, aftermarket are not always better. There are only a few boutique brands that have a few oils I think are valuable. Amsoil SSO and Redline racing oils. M1/PP/PU/Synpower are great oils.
I suppose the reasons people have for deviating from OEM oil recommendations are similar to the reasons they have for deviating from the OEM exhaust, turbo, wheels, brake parts, suspension parts, etc.
Some people feel their cars were to some extent optimized for goals that they don't share. When you see someone screaming bloody murder about API SM and choosing an oil with lots of ZDDP, it's like someone who complains about soft suspension and installs super-stiff coilovers.
Some people operate their cars outside the normal range of conditions, and really do need different components. For example, AEHaas runs xw-20 oils in supercars that spec xw-40 and xw-60 because his oil temperatures never reach the point at which thicker oil would help. Another example would be people with extensively modified engines that would benefit from special grades and/or formulations, like my friend with a 2.0L stroker engine in his Mini Cooper S who runs a straight-30 weight from RLI.
Some people are just experimenting or have totally unrelated goals, like supporting a company that they like for other reasons. Both of those are among the reasons why I made the leap to RLI (although they obviously were not primary).
And then, of course, some people just hear what their mechanics tell them, or whatever spurious reasoning they come across on the Internet, and run with it. I think those are the folks you're mainly annoyed with, yes?
It's all about making an informed choice, really. I have been known to be a pretty stubborn advocate of sticking with OEM in a few cases (e.g. with BMW M engines that spec Castrol TWS 10w-60), but I wouldn't say that OEM is always best. It's certainly true, however, that most people who deviate from OEM don't really have coherent and well-informed reasons for doing so.
Exactly right. In defense of certain OEM parts, aftermarket are not always better. There are only a few boutique brands that have a few oils I think are valuable. Amsoil SSO and Redline racing oils. M1/PP/PU/Synpower are great oils.
Originally Posted By: buster
In defense of certain OEM parts, aftermarket are not always better.
9 times out of 10 aftermarket parts are inferior, unless they are high-end/performance-oriented parts.
I almost always go back to OEM parts unless I am looking to improve on something, then it usually ends up costing more than the OEM part.
In defense of certain OEM parts, aftermarket are not always better.
9 times out of 10 aftermarket parts are inferior, unless they are high-end/performance-oriented parts.
I almost always go back to OEM parts unless I am looking to improve on something, then it usually ends up costing more than the OEM part.
I can understand Jeff's point about each company stating that their oil (or any other product) is the best.
Mobil 1 has been around a long time and is certainly a good oil.
It took a beating in discussions on this forum for a long time, but I never saw anything concrete about it not being a good oil.
Which brand will protect best?.....I certainly have no idea.
I know that Jeff communicated with Dave at Redline about his particular car and the tweaks he has done with it.....and Dave Recommended a particualr oil in their line-up to him.
I would certainly say that Dave at Redline would know far better than I would which oil in their line-up would be best for his application.
I would also think (and I am not qualified to state) that the Redline Oil would be a good oil.
However, for Dave to know, or even suggest a competitor over Redline would be expecting something not reasonable.
I don't think Jeff expected that......I would expect Dave to be very knowledgeable about Redline oils....and which of their oils would be the best for a given application.
There is a LOT of opinion out there........and lots of people on the internet spouting a lot of "self censored".....and some folks who really know their stuff....I really enjoy threads like this one that deliver information from those with experience and knowledge that I will never have.
Mobil 1 has been around a long time and is certainly a good oil.
It took a beating in discussions on this forum for a long time, but I never saw anything concrete about it not being a good oil.
Which brand will protect best?.....I certainly have no idea.
I know that Jeff communicated with Dave at Redline about his particular car and the tweaks he has done with it.....and Dave Recommended a particualr oil in their line-up to him.
I would certainly say that Dave at Redline would know far better than I would which oil in their line-up would be best for his application.
I would also think (and I am not qualified to state) that the Redline Oil would be a good oil.
However, for Dave to know, or even suggest a competitor over Redline would be expecting something not reasonable.
I don't think Jeff expected that......I would expect Dave to be very knowledgeable about Redline oils....and which of their oils would be the best for a given application.
There is a LOT of opinion out there........and lots of people on the internet spouting a lot of "self censored".....and some folks who really know their stuff....I really enjoy threads like this one that deliver information from those with experience and knowledge that I will never have.
11 years later— great info.
Did a TBN on RLHP motor oil after in crankcase 5 years (low miles) in M3. TBN was 7.7
(Blackstone didn’t even offer a TAN test) wasn’t concerned as the oil came out about as clean as it went in.
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