Mobil One/5w30, 10,000miles 1989 Chevy Celebrity

[Lin0]

Heys,
newbie here, and don't know how to interpret this data and also thought this would help others so here it is in a clickable thumbnail:


I've been using AC Delco filters, twice I changed them during this OCI. Engine is a 2.8L 60°V6

I used an additive: Valvoline Engine Protector at the start of this OC

I'm a hard driver, and this was 60% city driving.

The start of this OCI was 10/9/05, and I've replaced 1.5Qts of oil total during OCI. No oil consumption.

Would love to hear the forums thoughts

[ September 05, 2006, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Lin0 ]

 

[Cutehumor]

have you checked for an air intake leak? or changed your air filter recently? high iron, lead, silicon, and sodium.

 

[Gary Allan]

Did you change the oil? The sheet says NO.

If you did, I'll bet you actually "felt" the difference.

 

[Lin0]

I was using the UOA to see if the oil needed changing.
And to help figure out what to change it to?

I do have an intake leak, and it is apart right now and has been since the UOA came back...

I will change the oil, just don't know if I should keep using mobil one 5w30 to get more than 10,000miles out of it...?

 

[ekpolk]

This one seems odd to me, but of course, I'm just one of the BITOG amateurs who reads these for fun. In lots of cases, they're easy to decipher. I don't think this is an easy read. Yeah, these GM 60 deg V-6s are known to be intake leakers, but I thought from what someone here said (i.e. I can't vouch for it) that the early examples of this breed (that is, 2.8s like this one) were not afflicted. Even if it is a leaker, why is the potassium zero? If anti-freeze was making it to the oil via the poorly sealed intake, shouldn't there be potassium in there too? Also, on the air side, while the silicon is up some (as in perhaps just a poorly sealed filter or ducting, it's not up enough IMO to account for those big wear numbers (unless maybe age is magnifying the effect). I imagine that I'm starting to sound like Terry Dyson's pitchman, but I'd strongly recommend that you contact him and seek his services. PM him or check DysonAnalysis.com for the latest prices -- very reasonable, comparable to or less than UOA itself. He's really good at picking through reports like this. Good luck with it.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Ekpolk x2 you need a pro.

 

[TooSlick]

I see three issues here...one is easy to correct, but the other two will take some digging:

1) I think you have an air leak directly into the crankcase that's causing elevated iron wear from the valvetrain and possibly some bearing wear as well. This is indicated by the elevated levels of silicon/dirt and sodium/road salt. You need to locate the source of this leak, possibly in the PCV system or from a vacuum hose, or even a loose oil filler cap.

2) It looks like you have signs of coolant contamination. Mobil 1 doesn't have anywhere near this level of MoDTC - I think the rest is moly in the chemical form of "molybate", which is a coolant additive. Most likely an intake manifold gasket, given the engine type.

3) You simply ran this oil about 25% too long under the conditions and allowed the TBN to drop too low. A good lower limit to use for OAI is 4.0 on the TBN. This higher TBN means you still have some detergency left to keep the engine nice and clean. This overextended OCI is also contributing to the accelerated bearing wear through corrosion.

Reduce your oil change intervals by at least 50% until you correct these issues.

TS

 

[ekpolk]

TS:

Good read, deeper than I was able to come up with, but I'm still left with two questions. First, doesn't the wear metal seem out of proportion to the amount of Si and Na? I am by no means disagreeing with your interpretation, just trying to crack the code on this one. Perhaps it's just the corrosive effect beginning to run away.

Second, why is the K at zero if he's got coolant contamination? Maybe it's just fluid choice, or just something else, but the "classic" look of coolant in oil is usually Sodium and Potassium together (followed shortly by the indicators of the resulting damage, iron, bearing material, etc.). Again, K is notably absent here.

I had totally overlooked road salt as a possible factor (living down south too long...).

 

[TooSlick]

A GM engine in a northern climate, the low TBN and the use of Mobil 1 makes me suspect corrosive wear & rust accounts for a good portion of this Fe....
Don't forget the NaCl is also highly corrosive in the crankcase.

I reread this post and I think the Moly is from the Valvoline engine protector, so I totally missed that one. So I'd attribute the bearing wear mainly to overextended service intervals and the ingestion of large dirt particles directly into the crankcase....You can see this oil has thickened quite a bit, which means the oil itself is also abrasive to some degree and has a high solids level.

TS

 

[Lin0]

ekpolk,
Dyson's latest *interpretation* prices indicate twice what I paid for this UOA. And his premium test kit is $50. Hard to justify for this car.

I like what you guys have given me thus far. The sodium in the oil is the most mysterious to me as the intake air leak began in the middle of summer when the roads had been washed well. I'm not using a lick of coolant or oil. Air filter has 10,000miles on it and doesn't look dirty.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lin0:
ekpolk,
Dyson's latest *interpretation* prices indicate twice what I paid for this UOA. And his premium test kit is $50. Hard to justify for this car.

---

To be fair, the $50 premium kit includes a UOA. You would be looking at the "EXISTING REPORT INTERPRETATION" which is $30.

 

[Lin0]

Yes the $50 includes UOA, and the UOA that I submitted is just one of those $15 jobs. So the interpretation is still twice what I paid for the analysis. I am happy just using the info everyone has provided thus far and reading up on some better oils to maybe use toward my next UOA.
Thanks to all!
Now I just need to figure out how to stop the engine rust and all this sodium that is somehow getting into the oil. All my intake hosing off the filter is tight, I can't imagine where this salt is coming in from.

 

[427Z06]

Current M1 5w30 is 11.3 cSt. Add in the Valvoline Engine Protector and the Vis is not far off. Definately change the oil and fix the air intake leak.

You stated that you "replaced 1.5Qts of oil total during OCI." But "No oil consumption." Can you explain this?

 

[Gary Allan]

I think that was from his filter exchanges, IIRC. Although, again, IIRC, the filter for this engine is very small ..and 1.5 quarts is more then 2 of them can hold.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lin0:
ekpolk,
Dyson's latest *interpretation* prices indicate twice what I paid for this UOA. And his premium test kit is $50. Hard to justify for this car.
(...snip...)

---

Your car, your money, your decision. Remember, you don't have to do this every time you change your oil (unless you want to). And if you're really concerned about spending too much money to keep a 17 year old car on the road, then why on earth are you dumping Mobil-1 into it??? Be consistent, feed it Havoline (great oil, low price)! Not to "dehumanize" poor Terry, but his service is just another tool with which to maintain your car, and IMO, an inexpensive one at that (no, Terry is not a tool...). Anyway, I stand by my recommendation, but whatever you do, I still hope you get it figured out.

 

[Al]

ekpolk..Idon't think he is talking manifold water/oil. I believe we are talking air.

But anyway it looks like you could have a coolant leak..high iron/silicon/lead woud be indicative of it. Yet you should have potassium (generally) depending on the antifreeze. Hate to further cloud the waters.

I'm wondering how accurate this analysis is

Anyway, please don't take my thoughts real serious...I'm just a piker here.

 

[Lin0]

A $2.47 PF52 AC filter can hold 3/4 of a quart each.

$2.47*2=$4.94 and I get mobil one for $4.75/qt
I used 6 qts of oil during the 10,000 miles. The valvoline engine protectant I used the rebate on and it was free afterward. $33.44 total invested including tax in the 10,000miles.

Thats why I thought I would use the Mobil One, because if it lasted the 10grand then it was high protection at a low price. Now that I am here and have a UOA, I am open to thoughts and willing to change my methods as they look like I am expecting too much.

This Havoline you talk about I cannot find for the life of me incept at Rite Aid, but its a dino oil of Havoline's? I cannot find anyones post that says whether its Havoline Synthetic or dino that you speak of? Thanks!
p.s.~im using prestone antifreeze. no clue as to whether it really contains any potassium...

[ September 06, 2006, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Lin0 ]

 

[ekpolk]

Lin0:

I was referring to the current SM dino Havoline, which can usually be found for just over $2 per quart at stores like Autozone or most Wal-Marts. Run a search on "Havoline" in the UOA section, and you'll see that it's done quite well, especially when you take its price into account. Texaco (Havo) also does a synthetic, but if you're really trying to keep as much $ as you can out of this car, then I'd recommend using the dino and running a mid-range OCI. This might be a better strategy for you anyway, because if this car is going to load the oil up with contamination, it won't matter if it's a syn, AND you'll want to be dumping it more often anyway.

Al -- concur, makes more sense when looked at from an airflow leak perspective. I guess many of us are ready to pounce on this engine given its history.

 

[Dominic]

Wow, I would change the oil IMMEDIATELY and reanalyse at 3000mi. Your iron and lead numbers are extreme!

 

[Hirev]

My best guess is there is an imbalance of Anti-Foam agent in your oil from your extra additive. Read this