Mobil guy confirms group III--maybe...

[Last_Z]

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Originally posted by kyle morley:
I gotta say, all these years I've heard that synthetics are better because the base stocks are so much more rugged that they last longer, are naturally more detergent, cook out and sludge less, so they need less additives, polymers, etc to make them perform.

Oh and that Groups IIIs are synthetic by court decree (sort of like the way W is prez)!

Now we are being told that just having synthetic (or synthetic-by-court-decree) base stock doesn't make a true synthetic, and that it's the expensive additive package that makes a true premium oil!

OK, and can believe either one, but it's a stretch to believe both at once. So which is it?

Personally, my suspicion is that, like many "top of the line" products, synthetics offer more buzz than real life advantages, and Mobil is splitting hairs to find ways to say that their bottom line oil is better than ever (and stick it to Castrol while they are at it) without making it seem that the high-profit line is becoming irrelevant

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You make some good points, which are also valid. Dino and fake dino are very close, if not equal to synthetic as far as performance goes. The way I currently see it, synthetics only beat dino on intervals of 5k miles or more (which 90% here don't do) and in the very extreme temperature (very hot/very cold.) Some say synthetics reduce friction over dino....nobody has shown any concrete evidence though.

Now, your view of Mobil sticking it to Castrol....I don't believe it. If Mobil really wanted to stick it to Castrol, they would come up with a very aggressive marketing campaign explaining to people exactly what kind of oil Castrol calls synthetic and its disadvantages vs Mobil's PAO. Heck, Mobil does not even mention the word PAO on their own Mobil 1 bottles!
Exxon/Mobil is one of the largest oil companies out there.....meaning they can produce high quality oil of only 2 or 3 groups, thus streamlining their production, undercut the competition's lesser quality oils and still make a profit through the sale of massive amounts of oil.
Walt-Mart is a very good example of this technique......very simple!

 

[MGBV8]

The previous promoters of PAO base oils may now be using GrpIII base stocks because of the price sensitivity of the market.

My UK source also reckons that Castrol is GIII in UK, and its sold at a cheaper price than M1.

 

[Don Stevens]

Something doesn't sound right. I find it hard to believe that the economics of "Everybody's oils are group III now" make sense. Group III oils are more expensive than Group II oils. Mobil may be able to afford to sell a full group III oil for $1.17 but I simply cannot believe that all the oil companies out there are simply going to buy a higher priced base stock, absorb the loss in profit, and still sell oil for $1.17 per qt. It just does not add up.

Don

 

[blupupher]

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Originally posted by dustyjoe1:
Interesting, so if castrol full synthetic does not have the " not for sale outside the americas" disclaimer then it could be pao or better. Anyone look at the gc bottle? Nice one.

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GC says it.

 

[Drew99GT]

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Originally posted by Don Stevens:
Something doesn't sound right. I find it hard to believe that the economics of "Everybody's oils are group III now" make sense. Group III oils are more expensive than Group II oils. Mobil may be able to afford to sell a full group III oil for $1.17 but I simply cannot believe that all the oil companies out there are simply going to buy a higher priced base stock, absorb the loss in profit, and still sell oil for $1.17 per qt. It just does not add up.

Don

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Group 3 is not needed for GF-4. Chevron is touting the virtues of using group 2/2+. Obviosuly for Mobil, it's cheaper to use group 3 as they're "tooled up" for it, they produce a ton of it etc.

 

[Dr. T]

Even Castrol GTX says "not for sale outside of the Americas". The reason for the disclaimer is because the product's use does not carry a warranty outside of the Americas.

 

[Ray H]

I'm still troubled by one thing in the ongoing debate over whether Mobil Drive Clean uses 100% Group III base stocks. If the rumors are true, why hasn't the company just gotten out in front of the issue and issued a press release attesting to it? In one fell swoop (swell foop?) the company would be the darling of BITOG dino users once and for all (not that THAT matters...), and the competition would be scooped (and THAT does matter!). When we have to depend on some unknown company person(s), who may be holding a phone handset in one hand and a broom in the other, I tend to treat his/her/their smooth assurances with caution.

 

[sxg6]

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Originally posted by Ray H:
If the rumors are true, why hasn't the company just gotten out in front of the issue and issued a press release attesting to it?

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i cant tell if your joking or being serious.. but if you are being serious.. probably because 98% of people in the world dont care

 

[Blue99]

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If the rumors are true, why hasn't the company just gotten out in front of the issue and issued a press release attesting to it?

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Well, this is true, but as sxg6 pointed out, it's not really front page headline news.

Valvoline, Castrol & ConocoPhillips seem to be the only API licensee's that have released full MSD's and/or product data sheets for SM/GF-4.

No new product info from the Pennzoil group, or Chevron/Havoline or Mobil/Mobil1, etc.

Some issues may be brewing here, partially due to the split SM launch of 5W-20/5w30 and the 10w30's & 40's. The fuel economy test issues may also be delaying the new products.

If some of these formulations are still being finalized with new add pack technology, it makes sense that all the i's are dotted & t's crossed before the cards are fully laid out on the table.

BTW, I still haven't seen any info that discounts the Drive Clean Grp III rumor.

 

[Cary]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
If Mobil really wanted to stick it to Castrol, they would come up with a very aggressive marketing campaign explaining to people exactly what kind of oil Castrol calls synthetic and its disadvantages vs Mobil's PAO. Heck, Mobil does not even mention the word PAO on their own Mobil 1 bottles!
[/QB]

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Think about this on a cost benifit analysis. 99.9% of the population could care less and have no interest in knowing the difference between a Group III and Group IV oil. Mobil already has an 80%+ market share of the synthetic market and it would likely be very costly for them to increase that market share.

As far as cost, Mobil is already cost cutting to keep market share. It costs more to produce PAO oils and mobil continues to market their oil at the same price as the Group III "synthetics."

 

[vvk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Stevens:
Something doesn't sound right. I find it hard to believe that the economics of "Everybody's oils are group III now" make sense. Group III oils are more expensive than Group II oils.

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But is it? With recent flood of cheap Korean Group III on the N.A. market Group III may actually be pretty close or even cheaper than Group II+ made in the US.

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by vvk:

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Stevens:
Something doesn't sound right. I find it hard to believe that the economics of "Everybody's oils are group III now" make sense. Group III oils are more expensive than Group II oils.

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But is it? With recent flood of cheap Korean Group III on the N.A. market Group III may actually be pretty close or even cheaper than Group II+ made in the US.

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Recent Base Oil Reports

 

[farrarfan1]

I have a question regarding group III versus group II/II+. Does a group III with a lesser additive package (Mobil Drive Clean?) provide any better protection than a group II/II+ with a higher level of additives such as moly, boron etc (Chevron/Havoline)? Or does the higher levels of additives in the group II/II+ give that oil any advantage over the group III? I'm referring to conventional oils that meet the same standards such as 5W30 SM GF-4.Thanks.

 

[Hirev]

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Even Castrol GTX says "not for sale outside of the Americas". The reason for the disclaimer is because the product's use does not carry a warranty outside of the Americas.

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What warranty is that? I have a bottle of Made in Italy Castrol real synthetic in my collection. And it does not say, not for sale outside Europe.

 

[mikemc]

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Originally posted by Ray H:
.... When we have to depend on some unknown company person(s), who may be holding a phone handset in one hand and a broom in the other, I tend to treat his/her/their smooth assurances with caution.

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