Mobil Clean 7500 Honda Accord 2.4L 9130 Miles

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I believe Honda's OCI recommendation is 5,000 miles severe service and 10,000 miles normal service. Honda spells out very plainly what they mean by severe and normal service. Since Fernando R's primary usage is around town, 10,000miles is pushing the OCI according to Honda.

Having said that, this interval was not overdone. Also, in my experience with my K20A3 engine, Mobil Clean 7500, Havoline 5w-20, and Valvoline Durablend all had lower TAN than Mobil 1 after 7200 mile intervals.
 
TS,

It depends how "concerned" you are with deposits. For me, as long as it's varnish and not sludge, it won't bother me.
wink.gif
 
I think the only people smoking crack, are some of the posters in this thread.

If Fernando does 10K OCI with this oil, and it performs as demonstrated in this UOA, this engine will go 300K miles, easy. It may not be spotless on the inside at that point, but it's far from some of the gloom and doom predicted above.

However, with Penz Plat at $4/qt, I'd consider looking at the price delta compared to what this stuff costs.
 
I agree 100% with JohnBrowning---10,000 miles on dino oil is very dangerous business even if it is Honda who's recommending it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by MADMIKE:
I agree 100% with JohnBrowning---10,000 miles on dino oil is very dangerous business even if it is Honda who's recommending it.
Click to expand...
10k miles on any old dino is kinda skeery. My Honda engine (Acura 3.2TL) uses an OLM, but I have heard it will indicate an oil life of up to 10k miles under good conditions. The owners manual is pretty loose on oil spec. All they require is any old API blessed SJ 5W-30.
 
10K on SJ dino--even scarier! Honda obvioulsy has an excellent reputation for engineeering, but let's not forget the recent sluding debacle featuring other car companies with excellent engineering reputations.(Toyota, VW/Audi, etc) I think Honda is really pushing the limits here and I see no good reason for it. I think it's highly inadvisable to push any dino past 7,500 miles and I wouldn't go beyond 5,000 miles personally. It's important to also note that there are wide variations among the manufacturers themselves with respect to OCI's.
 
I own an Accord and CR-V with the 2.4 iVTEC, and I'm not about to question Honda's team of engineers and countless tests regarding recomended OIC's. And dont forget about others too...7500-10k is becoming more common and they dont spec synthetic ANYWHERE.

I like the quote "I would bet that if you continue to use 10,000 mile oil changes with dino oil you will see an extremly dirty engine by 100,000 miles." Well I say...who cares if it is...especially if the UOA continues as is. Plan on tearing down the motor at 100k to "look at it" or what? lol, too funny.

Go by the book, or go by the UOA, all the rest here is assumption.
 
No one questioned Toyota's (or Audi, VW, Dodge, etc) engineers or countless tests either and thousands of customer's ended up with engines destroyed by sludge and denied warranty claims! To now suggest that Honda is somehow immune to pushing the limits of convential motor oils too far is pure folly! (Toyota and Ford have both reduced their OCI's in recent years, indicating they made a mistake the first time!)
 
The spec is 10,000 miles under normal (read ideal) conditions and 5000 miles under severe service conditions. I'd opine that most folks fall somewhere in between those two extremes.

Some of the sludging engines mentioned were simply not designed very well and/or they speced an inadequate quality lubricant.

TS
 
There was more to those issue with sludge than meets the eye. More often than not, the OIC's were in great question. Even proof of them being done at all direct from the horses mouth. Ask a few mechanics (and I hate to say this) and service reps, they will tell you some good background info. And last I checked, the FTC provides some detailed info regarding these recalls also. They did a complete write up regarding Toyota sludge motors having a design problem, and the 2.4 in the CR-V that had oil filter seals sticking, then casueing leaks on the exhaust.

There were not huge numbers of engines failing due to sludge in any case either, but enough to issue recalls in a few cases. All together may be there were "thousands of engines destroyed", however not in any one case that I've reviewed.

Get the facts, and THEN complain about the lack of trust in automotive engineers and the countless hours of testing they do.

Speaking of facts, I havent seen anyone proove dino oil CAN NOT go the 10k distance. Where's all the dino UOA's that have everyone in an uproar? Am I missing something???
 
All I'm saying is don't be so quick to trust the car companies because their histories are littered with mistakes and bad ideas that the consumer ended up paying for or being stuck with in the end. And yes, there have been many OCI's on this board with far fewer than 10,000 miles showing low TBN's and questionable wear metals. There are very few 10,000 mile OCI's with dino on this board because very few prople (IMHO wisely) are willing to push conventioanl oil that far.
 
The oil analysis testing I've done locally in some of these motors - particularly the 1999-2001, 3.0L, Toyota V-6 - clearly shows that it degrades even a 12 TBN, PAO/Ester synthetic very quickly.

The issue with the VW Passat/A4 is mainly folks running conventional oil in a turbo with a small sump capacity (3.7 qts). I'm having no problem running 10k OCI's in my 1.8L/225 Hp, Audi TT with the 4.8 qt sump, using VW 502.00 spec synthetics.

The SAAB engine looks to have marginal performance out of the PCV system and should have speced a synthetic as well.

I'm not all that familar with the 2.7L, engine used in the Chrysler vehicles that had sludging issues, so I can't comment on that one.

I think that Automotive engineers generally have a thankless job, since cost is such a big driver in the design process.

TS
 
The idea that the OCI had to be exceeded to cause sluding is dubious at best which is why Toyota FINALLY agreed to extend the warranties with proof of one oil change per year. I seriously doubt that dino taken to 7,500 miles could protect these engines from sludging. And the fact that Toyota and Ford dialed back their OCI's from 7,500 miles to 5,000 miles in the past few years has to tell you something. If the manufacturers themselves can't agree on OCI's I know we here on this board never will! And I wonder if maybe Honda is just the latest manufacturer to play OCI roulette in order to be able to tout a low maintenance product.
 
We'll see. My CR-V gets only Quaker State 5w-20 (dino), and my Accord gets Mobil or Valvoline syn, at this time there is 5w-20 Valvoline to be replaced with 0w-20 Mobil again. Each car has about 32k miles.

Side by side, I have not been able to tell one cars used oil from another. Even with 7500+ miles on any oil, both drain awefully "clean looking".

Both cars are due for an OC soon. Each is nearing 7500 miles and I'm changing before it gets cold out. I have two Blackstone jars ready to be filled. To be continued...

BTW - Honda is far from the only MFG with 7500 mile ROCI's. Dodge Durango's call it out. And ask a few with oil life monitors, how long they can go before the light goes on. 7-10k is far from uncommon.

Russian Roulette OCI's? I dont think so...but to each their own. Your money. Your vehicle. Do what lets you sleep at night.
 
In 5 minutes I found 4 posts of high mileage dino OA's. Still would like to see a "bad" OA of dino @ 10k that so many assume would occur. Not to say they would be good, I just want proof that says auto manufactures are full of it. Cause I aint buy'n it.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003720

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003445

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003736

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003639
 
And remember, MOST auto manufacturers DON'T agree with Honda (Ford, GM, Toyota, Chrysler, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, etc, etc, etc)
 
I hate to belabor the issue and get into one of those back and forth arguments we see from time to time on this board, but I believe the UOA's provided above to support 10,000 mile OCI's with dino actually make my case--none is anywhere near 10,000 miles, one is a syn blend/syn mix, and most show low TBN's despite being far from 10,000 miles!

1) 4,963 miles on Mobil 7500/Mobil 1 mix. (certainly doesn't make the case for 10K on dino which is what we were discussing)

2) 2 UOA's less than 5,000 miles, 1 @ 6,839 miles---ALL have low TBN from .9 to 1.9! Certainly doesn't make the case for 10K OCI's!

3) 5,000 mile OCI showing, surprise! Low TBN! (1.4) Certainly doesn't make the case for 10K OCI's!

4) 5,500 mile OCI showing, yet again, low TBN of 1.5. Again, certainly doesn't bode wellto take this oil out almost twice the mileage to 10,0000!
 
quote:
Originally posted by MADMIKE:
And remember, MOST auto manufacturers DON'T agree with Honda (Ford, GM, Toyota, Chrysler, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, etc, etc, etc)
Click to expand...
10K or even greater service intervals on petrolum based lubricants are the norm ouside the US. For identical engines in many cases. US fuels have more sulphur in them, but that doesn't explain it all, as the basis for the shorter service interval in the US seems to primarily cultural, not technical in nature.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with this particular analysis at all, and as long as the user doesn't foresee more severe usage, he can safely continue.

The average service intervals for the analysis' in this site with synthetic seem to be about 5K, which is a joke. Those people are usually just wasting their money.
 
quote:
Originally posted by MADMIKE:
I hate to belabor the issue and get into one of those back and forth arguments we see from time to time on this board, but I believe the UOA's provided above to support 10,000 mile OCI's with dino actually make my case--none is anywhere near 10,000 miles, one is a syn blend/syn mix, and most show low TBN's despite being far from 10,000 miles!

1) 4,963 miles on Mobil 7500/Mobil 1 mix. (certainly doesn't make the case for 10K on dino which is what we were discussing)

2) 2 UOA's less than 5,000 miles, 1 @ 6,839 miles---ALL have low TBN from .9 to 1.9! Certainly doesn't make the case for 10K OCI's!

3) 5,000 mile OCI showing, surprise! Low TBN! (1.4) Certainly doesn't make the case for 10K OCI's!

4) 5,500 mile OCI showing, yet again, low TBN of 1.5. Again, certainly doesn't bode wellto take this oil out almost twice the mileage to 10,0000!
Click to expand...
On the other hand, there's this recent UOA of my girlfriend's Honda using Amsoil's Group III 5W20, with a TBN of 4.2 after over 7K....
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003748
 
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