Mobil 1 Racing Technical Development - 0w50

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Hi Doug,

I trust you had a good time on your vacation in Germany, taking in the Nurburgring ADAC 24 hr race.

I'm sure the bespoke 0W-20 race oils you mentioned had uncharacteristically high HTHS vis spec's.

Off topic, but did you get a chance to rent anything interesting while you were there. I heard from a unqualified source that some of the rental cars have speed governors on them?
 
Hi,
CATERHAM - The lubricants were "off the shelf" in the case of FUCHS (well I presume so as they were in branded containers)
Castrol indicated that their 0W-20 race oils were similar to the 10W-60 in structure

Castrol were happy to use their 10W-60 race oil wherever (AUDI etc) and some BMW Teams used their version of that oil. I'll be doing an internal article for Castrol Germany on the original Formula R 15W-50 (now 10W-60)as much of the development history has been lost. I know much of it as you know

It was interesting for me that their Engineers believe that their Transmax Z and the synthetic gear oils developed nearly two decades ago are still at the top of the tree! I agree!!

OT - Sadly I had no time to rent anything this time. I was very busy waving flags and meeting people. They lock down the Nordscheife on the Tuesday before the event and reopen again the following Tuesday

Last year I had a "hot" SEAT - next year I'll do it better!!!!

You can rent non limited vehicles - at a price!! As well, there are a number of advisory and enforceable speed limits on the Nordschleife

The SEAT I had was not limited (similar spec to the SEAT race cars and the Sirocco which "loans" its parts)and no speed limits were observed for various reasons - well that is except for the "butt" and "heartbeat" ones
 
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Hi Doug,

Is there a best time of year to drive the Nordschleife or is open to the paying public most of the time? BTW it's on my bucket list.

I recall you once recommended the Castrol Tranzmax Z for the gearbox of my BMW, unfortunately some interesting lubricants like that and Fuchs 0W-20 (bio-ester based I believe) are not available in NA. Not that I'm complaining as we do have companies like Red Line and Renewable Lubricants (RLI) that make some interesting POE and bio-ester based oils. And our lubricant prices are dirt cheap compared to Europe and OZ.
 
Mobil has been formulating their oils to have low shear stability, for a reason I believe. They are intentionally designing oils now that are not shear stable. In addition, more VI improvers are not necessarily bad. Some minor viscosity loss due to shearing is not detrimental to performance, as engines are quite tolerant of a broad range of viscosities. Temporary shear loss in the bearings improves fuel economy and horsepower. I've just noticed a trend with Mobil 1 oils. The only oils they make that have rock solid shear stability are their MC oils.
 
The only thing I can think of is these oils offer more power and protection than oils with higher shear stability and high friction modification.

Mobil works very closely with numerous race teams. I'd imagine that they learn a lot from testing their oils in racing. 50% of Nascar uses Mobil 1. I would think they know what they are doing.

However, the price of this oil is outrageous and it will be a short lived product.
 
In thinking about it a bit, I can see how the 0w50 would be a useful oil for a team that's running M1's 0W-20, 0w30 or even 0W-40 to have available as blending tool. Say you're at the track and you're engine is running hotter than expected or the oil pressure is a bit low, adding some 0w50 would be a quick fix.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
The only thing I can think of is these oils offer more power and protection than oils with higher shear stability and high friction modification.

Mobil works very closely with numerous race teams. I'd imagine that they learn a lot from testing their oils in racing. 50% of Nascar uses Mobil 1. I would think they know what they are doing.

However, the price of this oil is outrageous and it will be a short lived product.



I don't think this is the some oil that NASCAR motors are using, regardless of the clever marketing they use to spin that.

Their oils are designed to last one race.
 
I agree, I believe (at that price) it's the same oil.

Or you could use the same oil Joe Gibbs uses in their Nascar engines; the XP1 5W-20 (100C vis of 9.1 cSt) or XP2 0W-20 (100C vis of 6.3 cSt) for half the price.
 
And some Motul 8100 oils can cost even more than that.

Castrol TWS gets that high or higher in some regions.
 
Hi,
CATERHAM - OT - You asked this:
"Is there a best time of year to drive the Nordschleife or is open to the paying public most of the time? BTW it's on my bucket list."

The Nordschleife is open to the public at prescribed times - daily/weekly. It is a case of pay by the lap and each lap is unique in that you must go thru Control in order to swipe your card. It is quite expensive if you don't have friends "in high places" or some type of "special concession"!

For me the best time is May or September when the crowds are less. Weekends are chaotic with many BMW "boy racers" carving up all and sundry (until they get banned perhaps) and "terrified" motorbike riders can be a problem

It gets quite cold there at times and it can often be wet or damp. Once wet the track takes time to dry and as it is tree lined wet patches can remain for very long periods - this makes it even more dangerous

A number of people are killed there each year with motorbike riders being at the top of that list

If you do visit there stay in Nurburg or Adenau (I stay in Herschbrioch) - visit the "Cockpit Bar" at the Dorint Hotel - Josef More will look after you well - he is a "Nordschleife Meister" in his own right. We have had many a drink together!!
 
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
Do people even race when temps drop to levels where you'd need a 0w-xx oil?


Tire compounds become the major factor in cold weather racing MUCH MORE SO than any oil viscosity ranges.
wink.gif


(I'd like the know what the slick compounds were like on the Michelins used for a DRY, but COLD Monte Carlo Rally back when it was still on the WRC circuit!)
 
Hi,
tonycarguy - You said this:
"Do people even race when temps drop to levels where you'd need a 0w-xx oil? Serious race car drivers run 20w50, SAE 50 or SAE 60."

At the Nurburgring in May it was around 3C ambient at time during the 24hr event - and during the Classic 3hr event!
In Rally Car engines of course the temperature range is very wide - look at the winter Rallys in Sweden and Finland as just two

When 20W-50 viscosity lubricants are used most teams aim for an oil temp of around 80C before going above about 1500rpm and in most cases even before the car leaves the Pits

The "SAE60" lubricants that may be used in long distance events (usually for fuel dilution reasons) are typically of 10W-60 viscosity

Some engines are now being raced on special "off the shelf" 0W-20 viscosity lubricanst. Many use Mobil 1 0W-40!
 
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