Mobil 1: Odd Recommendation

[Gene K]

Lol, they can say whatever they want and I don't care.

0w20 will work for Gene K.

0w20 is better than 5w20. It's nothing worth losing sleep over.

Trying to figure out why they recommended a nonstarburst European Car Oil for a Honda.

 

[Gene K]

I'd have no problem using ESP. IMO it is one of the best, if not the best of the XOM offerings.

Well I like the heavier grades better than the ESP X2 0W20 but I'm not really arguing that. If I put in a new F150 3.5EB I don't get ESP 5W30 as much as I would prefer it. I'm trying to figure out why M1 went off the reservation.

 

[demarpaint]

Well I like the heavier grades better than the ESP X2 0W20 but I'm not really arguing that. If I put in a new F150 3.5EB I don't get ESP 5W30 as much as I would prefer it. I'm trying to figure out why M1 went off the reservation.

I like the heavier grades too, but I don't want to get into that. I use either ESP 0W30 or 5W30 in all of my vehicles. I took advantage of the deal AAP had on the 5 quart jugs of 0W30, I should be GTG for at least two years.

 

[bbhero]

I'd have no problem using ESP. IMO it is one of the best, if not the best of the XOM offerings.

This is in my opinion is quite right....

Mobil 1 ESP is a great, great oil... With some of the toughest approvals met on those oils.

Good enough for a Porsche... Darn sure good enough for most any other vehicle on the road.

 

[FTTSHO]

Who are they? Honda? Are you confused about what the winter rating implies in terms of an acceptable oil certification?

When I said "they" I was referring to the group of people Overkill was talking about, not Honda.

This is what Overkill said: "Do you ever read the replies people make to you on this?" When I said they, I was referring to the "people" in Overkills sentence.

 

[kschachn]

When I said "they" I was referring to the group of people Overkill was talking about, not Honda.

This is what Overkill said: "Do you ever read the replies people make to you on this?" When I said they, I was referring to the "people" in Overkills sentence.

Okay. I agree with Overkill.

 

[Accent Abuser]

I have no intention of using either M1 ESP X2 or Honda Motor Oil. I simply found it strange that M1 recommended an oil that does not have the "Starburst". The fact that they recommended a 0W-20 doesn't.


Honda Owner's Manual
Primary - 5W-20
Alternate - 5W-30
Additional Requirements - APi Certification Seal for Gasoline Engines
"It is highly recommended that you use Honda Motor Oil in your vehicle for as long as you own it"

If it can use 5w20 it can use 0w20. The esp is a C5 oil no? I'm sure it would be just fine. No starburst required if it has an ACEA gas engine rating unless you're trying to satisfy a warranty requirement. If I were to use a 20 grade in my Hyundai this is probably what I'd use.

 

[OVERKILL]

Lol, they can say whatever they want and I don't care.

0w20 will work for Gene K.

0w20 is better than 5w20. It's nothing worth losing sleep over.

That's a great attitude. You are on a technical forum where advice is requested and shared and there is an effort made to ensure that this advice is reasonably accurate. The fact that you don't care that what you are sharing is patently incorrect and this is being pointed out should be a motivator for you to further educate yourself, not dismiss it out of hand because that's less work. That's just plain lazy, and pretty disappointing.

 

[OVERKILL]

No service category at all listed anywhere in the manual I can find. It appears to me they are depending on the Starburst "For Gasoline Engies" combined with 5W-20 (preferred) or5W30 (alternative) to insure the latest lubricant in the correct grade. I guess it has the advantage of not having people trying to find SL Oil 20 years after the fact. Still I would worry about people finding ancient stuff at yard sales.

That's wild, thanks for sharing that, that strikes me as unusual.

 

[OVERKILL]

Trying to figure out why they recommended a nonstarburst European Car Oil for a Honda.

I expect that Mobil has interpreted Honda's requirement like @kschachn and I did, which was that they are just calling for an API-approved (for gasoline applications) lubricant, rather than specifically calling for the ILSAC approval. Are they wrong? It would seem so, but that's how it comes across to me.

 

[4WD]

You can safely use 0w20. 0w20 is better than 5w20 when the engine is cold because it flows quicker when you start the engine.

How quick is it ?

 

[4WD]

You’re correct I may have been misinterpreting that. I was stuck on the notion that Honda would be first and foremost concerned with API licensing and the donut states the oil is licensed and gives the license designation. Although the Starburst does contain the word “Certified” as you note.

Here is something from the Mobil sight - it has terms folks here don’t like - but it’s meant for consumers - some come to mind like multi “weight” - which is also used by Valvoline … Those who just love to “correct” the mouth breathers here can’t resist that one. Cold start flow is another. BITOG says pump output is flow. When I first joined here - I pointed out that flow distribution is not the same when oil is very cold since ID has the largest impact on residual pressure - length is another etc, etc … That’s a small straw in a milkshake … Jets require engineered pressure drop - kinetic energy will change as temperature does. Jet impingement will change - patterns will change …
All the way back to the days of Exxon Uniflo - it’s clear there are other perceptions on what flow means. So oil distribution from extreme cold to reaching operational temperature is different …
Regardless- if I lived somewhere cold - I’d be on a 0W to keep the filter out of bypass more than anything …

Motor oil bottle info | Mobil™

Here’s the breakdown of the detailed information provided on a motor oil bottle, including motor oil viscosity and weight, API service rating, and much more.

www.mobil.com

 

[FTTSHO]

That's a great attitude. You are on a technical forum where advice is requested and shared and there is an effort made to ensure that this advice is reasonably accurate. The fact that you don't care that what you are sharing is patently incorrect and this is being pointed out should be a motivator for you to further educate yourself, not dismiss it out of hand because that's less work. That's just plain lazy, and pretty disappointing.

Lol "great attitude." Who's the one arguing about 0w and 5w? Both will work, and it's perfectly reasonable. I don't want to start an argument, 0w20 or 5w20 is both reasonable to use.

Anyhow, 0w20 will work for Gene K. I'm not arguing whether 5w20 or 0w20 is better. Both is perfectly reasonable to use.

As far as Honda requiring a European car oil, we can't figure out why. We are throwing opinions around, not fact. We don't know why Honda did that. Any 5w20 or 0w20 will work, it doesn't have to be a European oil.

It's not worth losing sleep over.

 

[OVERKILL]

Lol "great attitude." Who's the one arguing about 0w and 5w? Both will work, and it's perfectly reasonable. I don't want to start an argument, 0w20 or 5w20 is both reasonable to use.

Anyhow, 0w20 will work for Gene K. I'm not arguing whether 5w20 or 0w20 is better. Both is perfectly reasonable to use.

As far as Honda requiring a European car oil, we can't figure out why. We are throwing opinions around, not fact. We don't know why Honda did that. Any 5w20 or 0w20 will work, it doesn't have to be a European oil.

It's not worth losing sleep over.

The contestation isn't with whether a 0w-20 or 5w-20 will work, it's your claim about flow, which I addressed in a previous thread where you made the same statement.

On the European 0w-20 thing, Honda isn't requiring it, Honda appears to be specifying the ILSAC starburst symbol rather than the API donut. Mobil's oil selector tool is indicating that, along with the other 0w-20's, that the ESP 0w-20 (a Euro lube) which has the API donut but not the ILSAC starburst, is appropriate for the application. That's what this thread is about, why Mobil is recommending a Euro lube that doesn't have the ILSAC starburst and who Honda is calling for the starburst, rather than the API donut, which is unusual.

 

[OVERKILL]

Here is something from the Mobil sight - it has terms folks here don’t like - but it’s meant for consumers - some come to mind like multi “weight” - which is also used by Valvoline … Those who just love to “correct” the mouth breathers here can’t resist that one. Cold start flow is another. BITOG says pump output is flow. When I first joined here - I pointed out that flow distribution is not the same when oil is very cold since ID has the largest impact on residual pressure - length is another etc, etc … That’s a small straw in a milkshake … Jets require engineered pressure drop - kinetic energy will change as temperature does. Jet impingement will change - patterns will change …
All the way back to the days of Exxon Uniflo - it’s clear there are other perceptions on what flow means. So oil distribution from extreme cold to reaching operational temperature is different …
Regardless- if I lived somewhere cold - I’d be on a 0W to keep the filter out of bypass more than anything …

Motor oil bottle info | Mobil™

Here’s the breakdown of the detailed information provided on a motor oil bottle, including motor oil viscosity and weight, API service rating, and much more.

www.mobil.com

View attachment 88651

Not only the filter bypass, but the pump out of relief too, which shows clearly as engaging in that diagram at ~2,000RPM. That's why I always use the qualifier about not being on the relief when we are talking about flow and pump output, because pump volume and RPM are a fixed relationship, regardless of viscosity, until that relief comes into the picture, at which point they are decoupled.

There are of course many different variables that determine when, and if, this happens, which is why I'm not a fan of broad-brushed statements on this topic.

 

[4WD]

Not only the filter bypass, but the pump out of relief too, which shows clearly as engaging in that diagram at ~2,000RPM. That's why I always use the qualifier about not being on the relief when we are talking about flow and pump output, because pump volume and RPM are a fixed relationship, regardless of viscosity, until that relief comes into the picture, at which point they are decoupled.

There are of course many different variables that determine when, and if, this happens, which is why I'm not a fan of broad-brushed statements on this topic.

Yuup - pump output is pump output - even with a two stage pump - but distribution is dynamic …
What I also found interesting is that Amsoil, Mobil, Pennzoil, and Valvoline are writing things that get attacked here - both on the subject of flow and winter ratings etc - but it might be more street talk that what’s coming from R&D …

 

[OVERKILL]

Yuup - pump output is pump output - even with a two stage pump - but distribution is dynamic …
What I also found interesting is that Amsoil, Mobil, Pennzoil, and Valvoline are writing things that get attacked here - both on the subject of flow and winter ratings etc - but it might be more street talk that what’s coming from R&D …

Yes, I always mentally think back to Shannow's posts on bearing draw from the main gallery. He pointed out that this is dynamic and that it changes with both RPM and viscosity. The layman take on bearing lubrication is that they are pressure-fed; that oil pressure is what keeps things apart, but as @Shannow wrote on extensively, that's not the case. Bearings draw what they need from the gallery, that head of pressure just ensures there is sufficient supply there from which to draw from.

I don't fault the oil companies for over-simplifying. If people on a forum dedicated to lubrication struggle with these concepts, expecting Joe Average to understand them is a lost cause.

 

[Tom NJ]

For readers who may be confused on the terminology here, the API has three "marks" that they own and manage. The Starburst and the Shield are API marks certifying approval against the ILSAC standards. ILSAC has no certification marks. The "Service Symbol" known as the Donut certifies approval against API specifications.

The Honda manual creates confusion when they use "API Certification Seal" instead of the standard language "API Certification Mark".

A complete description of the marks and standards are here:

API's Motor Oil Guide

 

[OVERKILL]

For readers who may be confused on the terminology here, the API has three "marks" that they own and manage. The Starburst and the Shield are API marks certifying approval against the ILSAC standards. ILSAC has no certification marks. The "Service Symbol" known as the Donut certifies approval against API specifications.

The Honda manual creates confusion when they use "API Certification Seal" instead of the standard language "API Certification Mark".

A complete description of the marks and standards are here:

API's Motor Oil Guide

Yes, the API provides all of these marks, I was simplifying the API ILSAC starburst by calling it the ILSAC starburst, since that's the origin, despite ILSAC not directly providing the approval.

 

[4WD]

Yes, I always mentally think back to Shannow's posts on bearing draw from the main gallery. He pointed out that this is dynamic and that it changes with both RPM and viscosity. The layman take on bearing lubrication is that they are pressure-fed; that oil pressure is what keeps things apart, but as @Shannow wrote on extensively, that's not the case. Bearings draw what they need from the gallery, that head of pressure just ensures there is sufficient supply there from which to draw from.

I don't fault the oil companies for over-simplifying. If people on a forum dedicated to lubrication struggle with these concepts, expecting Joe Average to understand them is a lost cause.

Right - there is a tremendous pressure wedge in the bearing and oil pump feed pressure is just stored energy keeping up with the leak rate …