Mobil 1 no longer PAO oil, but is Amsoil?

[daman]

Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
Originally Posted By: daman

you do realize there is no 100% PAO oil?


No, that's why I said this: "I'm sure you love Mobil, but again I'm looking for a PAO oil, not a blend. If it exists still, cool, if not, so be it. "

I know your not bashing and that's good just trying to inform you is all, NOT leading you to buy anything you don't want.

 

[shpankey]

I think the same. Nobody knows for sure but XOM but if I had to guess, their AFE and Euro oils (the 0w's) and the HM line and probably the Racing (15w50) are suspected by many to still have a heavy dose of PAO. Nothing in the UOA section would lead me to think otherwise, as the UOA's for these are definitely great. I think maybe the vanilla line ie 5w30 etc may have recently (or a year ago more accurately, according to Tom) switched to a VISOM base primarily. Though again, complete speculation on my part. XOM does admit to switching their formula around this time of some of their oils to their new VISOM (basically, a group III+) but much like SOPUS, there is nothing wrong with a very good group III based oil anyhow, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I have excellent results so far with the M1 0w30 AFE and 10w30 HM in two vehicles, and regular 5w20 in the Ford Focus has also done well... though I have some 0w20 AFE waiting on it for its next change.

You really have to consider that an oils performance is more about the end result that any one component of it and M1's oils still have great results. I've seen pics of race car's putting in 0w40 right off the shelf. There's one here where it was done on a 24 hour Lemans racecar. That to me is impressive.

To answer your question though, I think Royal Purple uses a lot of PAO in their base oil, along with even some group 5 in their synerlec. Their XPR line is thought by many to be a majority of group 5 along with some group 2 to help with solvency.

Amsoil has a variety of lines, their lower level lines are heavy group 3 and mid level lines group 4 with their dominator line being primarily group 5. Nobody knows the exact percentages but you can rest assured all of these oils use a mix of different groups, as certain groups do certain things better than the others so 100 percent of any one group would be foolish.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I always hate these kind`ve responses:

Mobil 1 is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil and the one chosen by more original equipment manufacturers around the world as factory fill.

I couldn`t care less who uses it for factory fill. That`s not what was asked. I guess it`s supposed to impress us so we`ll be like,"Woah!!!!!!!! If it`s factory fill then it MUST be the best!!!!!!!".


Consider that FF oils do have R&D with the engine builders, and often, (in M1s case and other oil companies as well) new oils are developed for changes in engines that may require a differant formulation to meet new demands. Also M1 never says it's the best, but they do say they are the "leading synthetic oil", as in sales.

 

[sangyup81]

The solution to the VII problem isn't a basestock that eliminates the need for VIIs but the use of better VIIs.

If you really want to look for basestocks with good natural VI, you might be surprised to know Group III has pretty good natural VI even though it originated as a dino before it was hydrocracked. Not quite on the level of Group IV or Group V but it's way cheaper making synthetics affordable even for those who want to do only 5000-7500 OCIs.

 

[tig1]

shpankey,
Also off the shelf M1 5-30 is often used in the La Mans series as well. 5-30 is an outstanding high heat oil. 4718 and HTO-06.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Amsoil and it's original formulation oil was group 5 base. Amsoil now is a group 4 base.

Mobil 1 was a group 5 base.
Mobil 1 is now a group 4 base.

Both companies have wonderful products and offer group 3 base oils as well!

I have used both and use the best product for my application/s.

Both companies have learned not to push any paticular group of oil. In some cases, a group 3 oil will do just as well. .

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Amsoil and it's original formulation oil was group 5 base. Amsoil now is a group 4 base.

Mobil 1 was a group 5 base.
Mobil 1 is now a group 4 base.

Both companies have wonderful products and offer group 3 base oils as well!

I have used both and use the best product for my application/s.

Both companies have learned not to push any paticular group of oil. In some cases, a group 3 oil will do just as well. .

yes

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: tig1
shpankey,
Also off the shelf M1 5-30 is often used in the La Mans series as well. 5-30 is an outstanding high heat oil. 4718 and HTO-06.

Nice. I didn't know that. I was just going by a recent thread here showing the pics of one team putting in 0w40 EF. I have nothing against the 5w30... I just really like the 0w line and HM oils they make as I have used them quite a bit with very excellent results.

 

[modernrockbro]

So, if I've read all this correctly, no decent oil manufacturer produces 100% PAO anymore, not because of cost, but because a blend works better?

I do know because Castrol won the lawsuit on the group 3 blend, and that for competitive reasons many companies dropped from the base 4, to the base 3, to remain competitive with Castrol, price-wise.

Please let's forget about Mobil 1, and just give info on what replaced base 4, which seemed to be ideal, to what is now offered instead, and why. Thanks - Damon. I'm the real Damon, not some user I.D. "daman" lol.

 

[shpankey]

Yes exactly.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
So, if I've read all this correctly, no decent oil manufacturer produces 100% PAO anymore, not because of cost, but because a blend works better?

I do know because Castrol won the lawsuit on the group 3 blend, and that for competitive reasons many companies dropped from the base 4, to the base 3, to remain competitive with Castrol, price-wise.

Please let's forget about Mobil 1, and just give info on what replaced base 4, which seemed to be ideal, to what is now offered instead, and why. Thanks - Damon. I'm the real Damon, not some user I.D. "daman" lol.

No problem...but instead of lots of typing try a search modernrockbro using "PAO" TONS of good info here to read.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
So, if I've read all this correctly, no decent oil manufacturer produces 100% PAO anymore, not because of cost, but because a blend works better?


From what I have read on here, this is correct for the most part.

 

[modernrockbro]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
The solution to the VII problem isn't a basestock that eliminates the need for VIIs but the use of better VIIs.

If you really want to look for basestocks with good natural VI, you might be surprised to know Group III has pretty good natural VI even though it originated as a dino before it was hydrocracked. Not quite on the level of Group IV or Group V but it's way cheaper making synthetics affordable even for those who want to do only 5000-7500 OCIs.


So do you guys and gals think it would be better to use a base 3 blend, because of value and do more frequent oil changes vs. using a group 4 base blend and keeping it in longer? If so, how often?

I'm open to any ideas.

I have a new motor, that I'm breaking in, and want to change over to an oil besides the Brad Penn in it here in a week or two. It's an older twin cam motor with dual Weber-style DCOE carbs, and will be revving to about 7000 frequently. My engine produces a lot of heat right now, and I will still have my foot in it after it's broken in. So, I need an oil that won't break down under heat & still flow in this cold North Carolina weather we are having.

 

[teddyboy]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
So, if I've read all this correctly, no decent oil manufacturer produces 100% PAO anymore, not because of cost, but because a blend works better?

I do know because Castrol won the lawsuit on the group 3 blend, and that for competitive reasons many companies dropped from the base 4, to the base 3, to remain competitive with Castrol, price-wise.

Please let's forget about Mobil 1, and just give info on what replaced base 4, which seemed to be ideal, to what is now offered instead, and why. Thanks - Damon. I'm the real Damon, not some user I.D. "daman" lol.

No problem...but instead of lots of typing try a search modernrockbro using "PAO" TONS of good info here to read.


When they say that the results speak for themselves, the basic response is that it's the leading synthetic oil and it's used by more manufactuers as factory fill. In other words, we have a really good marketing department and we're selling the stuff like carzy so we'd be crazy to tell you anyting regarding the forumulation.

 

[sangyup81]

The thing with Amsoil SSO is that you have to get the 35,000 miles in one year if you want the full OCI according to their recommendations. Most people don't drive nearly that much and can go 9 months to 1 year on Group III synthetic.

 

[nitehawk55]

I think your best bet for severe use and longer OCI's would be the Amsoil SSO (Signature ) oil .

 

[chubbs1]

PAO oils are yesterdays news, great for cold crank but lousy at solubility of additives, polarity. Blends are the in thing. M1 has a good science in their blending and have the best of both worlds for your high revving vehicle. M1EP, AMSOIL and Redline are oils to check out. Good luck in your search.

BTW I was a PAO freak like you 'til I learned more about it by itself.

 

[sangyup81]

If you do some reading on BITOG, there's been word that Exxon Mobil is selling this PAO based VII to other oil blenders that's much better than traditional VIIs

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
The solution to the VII problem isn't a basestock that eliminates the need for VIIs but the use of better VIIs.

If you really want to look for basestocks with good natural VI, you might be surprised to know Group III has pretty good natural VI even though it originated as a dino before it was hydrocracked. Not quite on the level of Group IV or Group V but it's way cheaper making synthetics affordable even for those who want to do only 5000-7500 OCIs.


So do you guys and gals think it would be better to use a base 3 blend, because of value and do more frequent oil changes vs. using a group 4 base blend and keeping it in longer? If so, how often?

I'm open to any ideas.

I have a new motor, that I'm breaking in, and want to change over to an oil besides the Brad Penn in it here in a week or two. It's an older twin cam motor with dual Weber-style DCOE carbs, and will be revving to about 7000 frequently. My engine produces a lot of heat right now, and I will still have my foot in it after it's broken in. So, I need an oil that won't break down under heat & still flow in this cold North Carolina weather we are having.


Won't break down in heat? Consider Red Line oils, that's what I would use in a car like yours. If you need extra zinc for your cams, they have an additive for that.

There is no doubt they have an oil that would be excellent for your car. Call Dave and ask him, he's very knowledgeable about oils.

Red Line doesn't have different grades of oil, it's all top of the line ester based oil.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products.aspx

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: modernrockbro
So, if I've read all this correctly, no decent oil manufacturer produces 100% PAO anymore, not because of cost, but because a blend works better?

There never was such as thing as 100% PAO. It's not technically possible to make 100% PAO. You need certain percentage of non-PAO oils (mineral typically) mixed in to deliver the additive package.