Mobil 1 - HTO-06 & Seq IVA

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buster

buster

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http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Acura_RDX_Mobil_1_Brochure.pdf

As we have seen over the last few months, companies have been challenging M1 on the Seq IVA wear test. From the Mobil 1 brochure, only one other oil passed the test and it was PP. Mobil 1 also showed outstanding results from the Renewable Lubricants brochure on the industry standard TEOST test. With that said, I think Mobil 1 is great for high temperature applications, but in stop/go driving under low load, low temp (many people), it falls a bit short.

For the HTO-06 spec, someone posted awhile back that Royal Purple was "working towards it". Amsoil only approved one oil for the HTO spec, their SSO. Edge and Synpower both do not meet the HTO spec.(yet) CP came out with a specific oil just for the Honda spec.

Formulation often requires trade-offs. I posted awhile back an email Roy Howell sent me.

Quote:
There are always trade-offs in engine oils, and we try to enhance antiwear and friction reduction at higher temperatures and loads, while trying to maintain performance at lower and normal loads and temperatures.

Regards,

Roy


Claiming superiority based on one test is clever marketing. The issue though is whether Mobil 1 was really passing this test, which is part of meeting the base api specifications. Honda's new spec came out about 2 years ago, in 2006, which is when Ashland began to notice Mobil 1 failing the Seq IVA wear test. This according to jobbersworld's article from Ashland.

If your car does not see extended drain intervals and high temperatures, synthetics like Mobil 1 probably offer little advantage over conventional oils. I think most of us have seen enough UOA's to agree with that statement. Especially on certain tests like the Seq IVA.
 
Originally Posted By: buster

Claiming superiority based on one test is clever marketing.



As much as the rocks fly, this is the basic reason given (by Kevin, et al) Amsoil doesn't publish even more numbers. Someone will always say: "....you got a 10....we got an 11"
 
Exactly. It's also why I like Amsoil's White Papers. They keep a score using multiple ASTM tests.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Good post buster. Trade-offs are a huge fact.




Jag your right. It seems those that use M1 5-30 get very long engine life with clean engine internals.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: JAG
Good post buster. Trade-offs are a huge fact.




Jag your right. It seems those that use M1 5-30 get very long engine life with clean engine internals.
Most any decent quality oil gives very long engine life with clean enough engine internals.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Exactly. It's also why I like Amsoil's White Papers. They keep a score using multiple ASTM tests.


"Multiple ASTM tests" may sound impressive, but what about passing all the required tests for a spec?
 
Do ANY of you even have a car that can take advantage of the superiority of today's synthetics? Or are most of you like the wannabe 4x4'er with the huge lift and tires who plays bad boys on the local street..
 
Yes. Double the OCI, better protection in extreme heat and cold.Synt. protects better for the average motorist thats careless with OCI. Prevents ring sticking and keeps engines much cleaner. Generally clean engines are long lasting engines.
 
Peter,

Would my business partners 413 Chevy big block, all aluminum, dirt track motor pushing 750 HP qualify??? I have been wrenching on it for him (or the stroked 383) for a few year now. We run Mobil 1 15W-50 in a dry sump setup that has been bullet proof so far.

Now if we can only get a decent driver.....

By the way, I also use Mobil 1 5W-20 on all of my personal cars. That includes my fire breathing, ground pounding, Camry hybrid....
 
Steve,

Most on this board will take this as heresy and demand that I be burned at the stake but ANY modern, decent oil from ANY company will work fine given a 5,000 to 7,500 OCI. I have seen engines abused, neglected, run low on oil and still go 200,000 miles or more. As long as the oil is the correct spec for the engine, they will work. We all have a preference based upon past experience and that is what makes this board interesting.

I just happen to like Mobil 1, don’t believe 90% of the garbage I read on the internet and look at the engines that I tear down. Oil costs are minimal in most engines when compared to the cost of the car and I am happy and content paying for what I prefer. It’s not Amsoil, Royal Purple, Castrol Edge or any other “My dad can beat up your dad” brand of oil, it’s just what I like.
 
Don't get me wrong, I believe in synthetic oil, just not for the majority of people and the way that they drive. Also, Im pretty sure that all of the major makers of synthetic are pretty much the same insofar as the usage/conditions that most people are going to use them. Im not so sure about generic branded synthetic like Supertec but I'll bet you thats just Valvoline re packaged.
 
Originally Posted By: GeorgiaHybrid
Peter,

Would my business partners 413 Chevy big block, all aluminum, dirt track motor pushing 750 HP qualify??? I have been wrenching on it for him (or the stroked 383) for a few year now. We run Mobil 1 15W-50 in a dry sump setup that has been bullet proof so far.

Now if we can only get a decent driver.....

By the way, I also use Mobil 1 5W-20 on all of my personal cars. That includes my fire breathing, ground pounding, Camry hybrid....


Yeah those camry's are [censored] on oil.. lol... Actually, the 15W-50 oil has always been a favorite of mine.. Seems to be one [censored] of an oil... Never heard anything bad about it and since I live here in the SF Bay area, I can usually use it.
 
Originally Posted By: GeorgiaHybrid
Steve,

Most on this board will take this as heresy and demand that I be burned at the stake but ANY modern, decent oil from ANY company will work fine given a 5,000 to 7,500 OCI. I have seen engines abused, neglected, run low on oil and still go 200,000 miles or more. As long as the oil is the correct spec for the engine, they will work. We all have a preference based upon past experience and that is what makes this board interesting.

I just happen to like Mobil 1, don’t believe 90% of the garbage I read on the internet and look at the engines that I tear down. Oil costs are minimal in most engines when compared to the cost of the car and I am happy and content paying for what I prefer. It’s not Amsoil, Royal Purple, Castrol Edge or any other “My dad can beat up your dad” brand of oil, it’s just what I like.





What engines have you torn down that used M1? What was their condition?
 
Hey George Hybrid
It's all about Trust---Mobil-1 either qualifies for the specs listed on the bottle or it doesn't. I'm of the belief it does not, and it doesn't really matter why, bottom line is IMO it doesn't make the grade. Sort of like when you get pulled over for speeding: doens't matter WHY, you are still speeding, and surprise---> you still get the ticket.
I am simply amazed the info from Valvoline PLUS the repeated UOA high iron numbers, and folks are still waving the Mobil-1 flag.
Guess it is 3 cheers for XOM marketing dept
Steve
 
Originally Posted By: buster
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Acura_RDX_Mobil_1_Brochure.pdf

As we have seen over the last few months, companies have been challenging M1 on the Seq IVA wear test. From the Mobil 1 brochure, only one other oil passed the test and it was PP. Mobil 1 also showed outstanding results from the Renewable Lubricants brochure on the industry standard TEOST test. With that said, I think Mobil 1 is great for high temperature applications, but in stop/go driving under low load, low temp (many people), it falls a bit short.

For the HTO-06 spec, someone posted awhile back that Royal Purple was "working towards it". Amsoil only approved one oil for the HTO spec, their SSO. Edge and Synpower both do not meet the HTO spec.(yet) CP came out with a specific oil just for the Honda spec.

Formulation often requires trade-offs. I posted awhile back an email Roy Howell sent me.

Quote:
There are always trade-offs in engine oils, and we try to enhance antiwear and friction reduction at higher temperatures and loads, while trying to maintain performance at lower and normal loads and temperatures.

Regards,

Roy


Claiming superiority based on one test is clever marketing. The issue though is whether Mobil 1 was really passing this test, which is part of meeting the base api specifications. Honda's new spec came out about 2 years ago, in 2006, which is when Ashland began to notice Mobil 1 failing the Seq IVA wear test. This according to jobbersworld's article from Ashland.

If your car does not see extended drain intervals and high temperatures, synthetics like Mobil 1 probably offer little advantage over conventional oils. I think most of us have seen enough UOA's to agree with that statement. Especially on certain tests like the Seq IVA.



Nice post. What is constituted as low, normal, and high load then?
 
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