Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 API Rating

[Impatient]

Question: (I hope this doesn’t sound too silly): do you think a Subaru dealer would have a valid claim against pouring ESP (0w-30 or 5w-30) into a 2007 Outback XT (EJ25 turbo)? I’ve been using Castrol Euro 0w30 in it for YEARS. I now may have a buyer; he insists on taking it to a Subaru dealer for an oil change (which really isn’t needed) and general diagnostic before committing. I don’t blame him for having a mechanic look it over. But I don’t want them putting some cheap swill API RC oil in it because: 1) at the time of the oil change, I will still be the owner of the car, and 2) if he does buy it, his plan is to drive it from Texas to his home in Florida upon transaction; I don’t want him haranging me that I sold him a rough engine. This engine is accustomed to the thicker Euro spec oil, and IMHO, has thrived on it. The dealer is still closed all day, and possibly tomorrow, because of the icey weather, or I would ask them directly (I still will once they open tomorrow or Wednesday), but I may need to order this oil from Walmart to get it in time for the diagnostic / oil change on Thursday, the day the diagnostics and vehicle sale are planned.

I would be more than happy to throw the Castrol in it again, but since it is “SL” with no pretense of passing SN or SP engine tests, I can see them refusing. They may refuse the ESP as well, but given the SN / SP language, perhaps they would fill with it instead of the Castrol.

I remember, before I happened upon the “German/Belgium Castrol” the engine sounded much coarser (that was maybe 10 yrs ago…so maybe I’m just losing the higher frequency hearing accompanying as I age). But the Subaru forum guys (and local tuner shops) were all about Rotella T6 5w-40 or some other even thicker stuff back then, and I had to fight against the current putting something “thinner” in it. Now I am worried some dealer will mistakenly think even thinner is better. P.S. my used oil analysis were pretty good with the Castrol.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

It's also too thick to carry the resource conserving starburst. Which, to your point, is a good thing.

So what if somebody's engine mfr recommends just any old Xw20, but they choose to run an Xw30 RC? Can that person honestly be called a thickie here? I mean, sure, they used a grade heavier than recommended, but then chose an oil that's still basically a cold 20 grade anyways...

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Question: (I hope this doesn’t sound too silly): do you think a Subaru dealer would have a valid claim against pouring ESP (0w-30 or 5w-30) into a 2007 Outback XT (EJ25 turbo)? I’ve been using Castrol Euro 0w30 in it for YEARS. I now may have a buyer; he insists on taking it to a Subaru dealer for an oil change (which really isn’t needed) and general diagnostic before committing. I don’t blame him for having a mechanic look it over. But I don’t want them putting some cheap swill API RC oil in it because: 1) at the time of the oil change, I will still be the owner of the car, and 2) if he does buy it, his plan is to drive it from Texas to his home in Florida upon transaction; I don’t want him haranging me that I sold him a rough engine. This engine is accustomed to the thicker Euro spec oil, and IMHO, has thrived on it. The dealer is still closed all day, and possibly tomorrow, because of the icey weather, or I would ask them directly (I still will once they open tomorrow or Wednesday), but I may need to order this oil from Walmart to get it in time for the diagnostic / oil change on Thursday, the day the diagnostics and vehicle sale are planned.

I would be more than happy to throw the Castrol in it again, but since it is “SL” with no pretense of passing SN or SP engine tests, I can see them refusing. They may refuse the ESP as well, but given the SN / SP language, perhaps they would fill with it instead of the Castrol.

I remember, before I happened upon the “German/Belgium Castrol” the engine sounded much coarser (that was maybe 10 yrs ago…so maybe I’m just losing the higher frequency hearing accompanying as I age). But the Subaru forum guys (and local tuner shops) were all about Rotella T6 5w-40 or some other even thicker stuff back then, and I had to fight against the current putting something “thinner” in it. Now I am worried some dealer will mistakenly think even thinner is better. P.S. my used oil analysis were pretty good with the Castrol.

Trust your gut. If you feel the potential buyer is going to be an absolute PIYA, adjust your price accordingly to compensate you for time and headaches later, or simply tell them you're not interested in letting them buy it.

Sometimes walking away from a potential sale is actually a blessing in disguise... trust me.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Question: (I hope this doesn’t sound too silly): do you think a Subaru dealer would have a valid claim against pouring ESP (0w-30 or 5w-30) into a 2007 Outback XT (EJ25 turbo)? I’ve been using Castrol Euro 0w30 in it for YEARS. I now may have a buyer; he insists on taking it to a Subaru dealer for an oil change (which really isn’t needed) and general diagnostic before committing. I don’t blame him for having a mechanic look it over. But I don’t want them putting some cheap swill API RC oil in it because: 1) at the time of the oil change, I will still be the owner of the car, and 2) if he does buy it, his plan is to drive it from Texas to his home in Florida upon transaction; I don’t want him haranging me that I sold him a rough engine. This engine is accustomed to the thicker Euro spec oil, and IMHO, has thrived on it. The dealer is still closed all day, and possibly tomorrow, because of the icey weather, or I would ask them directly (I still will once they open tomorrow or Wednesday), but I may need to order this oil from Walmart to get it in time for the diagnostic / oil change on Thursday, the day the diagnostics and vehicle sale are planned.

I would be more than happy to throw the Castrol in it again, but since it is “SL” with no pretense of passing SN or SP engine tests, I can see them refusing. They may refuse the ESP as well, but given the SN / SP language, perhaps they would fill with it instead of the Castrol.

I remember, before I happened upon the “German/Belgium Castrol” the engine sounded much coarser (that was maybe 10 yrs ago…so maybe I’m just losing the higher frequency hearing accompanying as I age). But the Subaru forum guys (and local tuner shops) were all about Rotella T6 5w-40 or some other even thicker stuff back then, and I had to fight against the current putting something “thinner” in it. Now I am worried some dealer will mistakenly think even thinner is better. P.S. my used oil analysis were pretty good with the Castrol.

Take whatever oil you want to put in it to your Subaru Dealer and tell them to use it. Why would they care, the car is a 2007, obviously out of warranty.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Take whatever oil you want to put in it to your Subaru Dealer and tell them to use it. Why would they care, the car is a 2007, obviously out of warranty.

Impatient is also not a franchised car dealer selling a new car. "As is, where is. Caveat Emptor, have a nice day!"

 

[Impatient]

Take whatever oil you want to put in it to your Subaru Dealer and tell them to use it. Why would they care, the car is a 2007, obviously out of warranty.

Yeah, that would be the plan: buy the ESP at Walmart, walk in to the dealer with the jug, maybe watch them (if possible) pour it in to be sure.

There is a considerable difference between what the numb Blue Book / Black Book / NADA would value this car at and what I hope to get for it (and what this guy supposedly is willing to pay). Again, I don’t really have a dramatically better approach for the mechanic look-see, as one of the challenges of owning this car has been finding a great Subaru mechanic that wasn’t “geographically undesirable.” I don’t live in Colorado, or the PNW, where there are more Subaru’s than Chevy’s…and I assume a Subaru mechanic on every third corner. (The only thing outnumbering Subaru’s in Oregon are Sprinter camper vans. )

 

[chris719]

Isnt one of the ESP advertisements that it “protects emission system”. Ive never seen other oils advertising emission system protection. Interesting

Yes but it’s all relative. ESP (C3) still has more phosphorus than API/ILSAC oils but less than ACEA A3/B4 full SAPS.

 

[GW.]

Isnt one of the ESP advertisements that it “protects emission system”. Ive never seen other oils advertising emission system protection. Interesting

Yes GPF and DPF.

 

[Panda87]

I’m with @SubieRubyRoo on this one. If he wants the oil changed, he can do it after he buys it from you. Asking a seller to change the oil prior to the sale is…weird. A dealer inspection? Have at it and I agree that it’s prudent. However, if someone wants me to change my oil in my vehicle prior to their decision, they can pound sand. Ngl, I get vibes from this buyer similar to the one I’m about to tell.

I had a late 50s guy wanting to buy my 05 VTX1300R. He shows up at my house and I’m in the garage with the door open. He looks at it for a minute and without asking, hops on the bike. He says “Is the key in it? I’m not buying this bike without hearing it run.” I’m thinking “I wouldn’t expect you to…” and say to him, “Yeah, crank it up.” I’m thinking this guy will do what any reasonable buyer would do and crank and listen. Instead, this jack-wagon cranks it up and the second it cracks off he BOUNCES IT OFF THE REV LIMITER for probably 3-5 seconds before I hit the engine cutoff switch. He gets mad and says “Hey kid (I’m active duty, 25 and a few combat tours) if you care at all about selling this bike, you won’t do that again or else.” and he tries to crank it again. I tell him “Get the f* off my bike, leave and don’t ever come back.” He then threatens to “beat me like the kid I am” while walking away and doing a burnout in his new Vette.

 

[Impatient]

I’m with @SubieRubyRoo on this one. If he wants the oil changed, he can do it after he buys it from you. Asking a seller to change the oil prior to the sale is…weird. A dealer inspection? Have at it and I agree that it’s prudent. However, if someone wants me to change my oil in my vehicle prior to their decision, they can pound sand. Ngl, I get vibes from this buyer similar to the one I’m about to tell.

I had a late 50s guy wanting to buy my 05 VTX1300R. He shows up at my house and I’m in the garage with the door open. He looks at it for a minute and without asking, hops on the bike. He says “Is the key in it? I’m not buying this bike without hearing it run.” I’m thinking “I wouldn’t expect you to…” and say to him, “Yeah, crank it up.” I’m thinking this guy will do what any reasonable buyer would do and crank and listen. Instead, this jack-wagon cranks it up and the second it cracks off he BOUNCES IT OFF THE REV LIMITER for probably 3-5 seconds before I hit the engine cutoff switch. He gets mad and says “Hey kid (I’m active duty, 25 and a few combat tours) if you care at all about selling this bike, you won’t do that again or else.” and he tries to crank it again. I tell him “Get the f* off my bike, leave and don’t ever come back.” He then threatens to “beat me like the kid I am” while walking away and doing a burnout in his new Vette.

I hate selling things. Yeah, I’m now thinking about alternative selling mechanisms (bring a trailer), but car dealers are as suspect as anyone. My original question was really about whether Mobil 1 ESP “dancing around” the SL, SN, and SP ratings would be cause for dealer alarm…I mean, if I walked in with a jug of 15 yr old SJ oil, I can see them refusing. If I walked in with a jug of current SL-only (well, SL + ACEA B3/B4) ) oil, I can maybe see them refusing; the original spec when the car was new was SM.

But the weather delayed everything; I should now have the luxury of asking the dealer directly. But Panda, thanks for spiking my paranoia gene

 

[Rand]

But the weather delayed everything; I should now have the luxury of asking the dealer directly. But Panda, thanks for spiking my paranoia gene

I dont see why you are even doing this or concerned.

No oil change until he buys it. then he can put whatever he wants in it.. there is no warranty from you.
That is what the inspection is for.
Don't borrow trouble.

That being said ESP 0w30 is API SL and its a 2007 = good to go.. but it shouldnt even come up and I wouldnt waste time or effort
when its not needed.

This sounds like a PITA seller who wants you to pay for inspection and take more $$$ off too after it.

Those negotiations should all be complete before any inspection.

Now if the inspection says:
Example only: all 4 brakes are shot(safety issue) I could see giving a small discount maybe the amount for parts to repair from rock auto.
$200?

This isnt a 2026 there is going to be issues. That does not mean you need to give money back for each issue.
the Seller has to weigh if he wants to buy it or not... AS IS... after he drives out there, and pays for the inspection too.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Question: (I hope this doesn’t sound too silly): do you think a Subaru dealer would have a valid claim against pouring ESP (0w-30 or 5w-30) into a 2007 Outback XT (EJ25 turbo)? I’ve been using Castrol Euro 0w30 in it for YEARS. I now may have a buyer; he insists on taking it to a Subaru dealer for an oil change (which really isn’t needed) and general diagnostic before committing. I don’t blame him for having a mechanic look it over. But I don’t want them putting some cheap swill API RC oil in it because: 1) at the time of the oil change, I will still be the owner of the car, and 2) if he does buy it, his plan is to drive it from Texas to his home in Florida upon transaction; I don’t want him haranging me that I sold him a rough engine. This engine is accustomed to the thicker Euro spec oil, and IMHO, has thrived on it. The dealer is still closed all day, and possibly tomorrow, because of the icey weather, or I would ask them directly (I still will once they open tomorrow or Wednesday), but I may need to order this oil from Walmart to get it in time for the diagnostic / oil change on Thursday, the day the diagnostics and vehicle sale are planned.

I would be more than happy to throw the Castrol in it again, but since it is “SL” with no pretense of passing SN or SP engine tests, I can see them refusing. They may refuse the ESP as well, but given the SN / SP language, perhaps they would fill with it instead of the Castrol.

I remember, before I happened upon the “German/Belgium Castrol” the engine sounded much coarser (that was maybe 10 yrs ago…so maybe I’m just losing the higher frequency hearing accompanying as I age). But the Subaru forum guys (and local tuner shops) were all about Rotella T6 5w-40 or some other even thicker stuff back then, and I had to fight against the current putting something “thinner” in it. Now I am worried some dealer will mistakenly think even thinner is better. P.S. my used oil analysis were pretty good with the Castrol.

I have been following this post and want to add a little more. I am @SubieRubyRoo and @Panda87 on this now. Plus, what I said before, it is a 2007, they may recommend an oil, but if you walk in with an off brand and weight oil, on a car that is out of warranty, they should do it for you. If they won't, they would prefer to do nothing for anybody all day, evidently. Forget the oil change, have the guy get the oil changed himself after you sell it to him. Have the inspection done by a business/mechanic you know while you wait and show you the problems they found before they pull it out of the bay. I have seen this mechanic inspection thing ultimately be a way to lower the price, with the possibility the car never even saw a mechanic for an inspection, it is used as a way to screw you down on price. I personally might tell this guy to just get lost, there are too many weird things with this.

 

[Panda87]

I hate selling things. Yeah, I’m now thinking about alternative selling mechanisms (bring a trailer), but car dealers are as suspect as anyone. My original question was really about whether Mobil 1 ESP “dancing around” the SL, SN, and SP ratings would be cause for dealer alarm…I mean, if I walked in with a jug of 15 yr old SJ oil, I can see them refusing. If I walked in with a jug of current SL-only (well, SL + ACEA B3/B4) ) oil, I can maybe see them refusing; the original spec when the car was new was SM.

But the weather delayed everything; I should now have the luxury of asking the dealer directly. But Panda, thanks for spiking my paranoia gene

Sorry man , didn’t mean to set off your paranoia! I think you’ll be fine with your chosen oil and the dealer putting it in for you. However, I think the heart of the matter comes before the oil change. I think the buyer is reasonable with a dealer inspection, but unreasonable expecting a maintenance action being performed without a contingency contract prior to the sale of the vehicle. If a new oil change is important to the prospective buyer, then the buyer can have the change performed on their dime after they purchase the car from you and you’ve signed the bill of sale and exchanged money.

 

[Bwalker]

Let us realize something here, this API Rating thing here is worthless. If it really meant something we would not be going to Euro Oil's and then to oils like Valvoline Restore and Protect and HPL!

Preach!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Sorry man , didn’t mean to set off your paranoia! I think you’ll be fine with your chosen oil and the dealer putting it in for you. However, I think the heart of the matter comes before the oil change. I think the buyer is reasonable with a dealer inspection, but unreasonable expecting a maintenance action being performed without a contingency contract prior to the sale of the vehicle. If a new oil change is important to the prospective buyer, then the buyer can have the change performed on their dime after they purchase the car from you and you’ve signed the bill of sale and exchanged money.

Let’s all be super honest with Impatient. There are 2 kinds of people who would be potential buyers for a 2007 Subaru (what model is it, @Impatient?).

1. The best kind of buyer; one who knows that mid ‘00 Subarus have the potential to be very good daily drivers, with some things that may require a little bit of ongoing TLC on their part (timing belt, engine grounds, passenger side wheel bearings, CVT joints, and wheelwell cancer in the Rust Belt) and are fine with it. They can also self-assess on the spot which issues the vehicle may have, and will either negotiate the price in good faith or thank you for your time and drive away.

2. The worst kind of buyer, who has only read the overblown hate stories of people who refused to follow Subaru’s maintenance recommendations. They want “their” mechanic to nickel-and-dime you on the estimate, quoting things the buyer will never have them fix if they do end up with the car. Their only goal is to buy a beater with AWD and drive off from your place for a few hundred bucks because they’ve rumor-shamed you into selling yourself short. They’ll drive it until the first major issue from their neglect surfaces, and they’ll call the scrap dealer and crush it.

I’ve seen this plenty of times, having owned 8 Subarus (6 of them in the ‘05-‘09 range) and helped friends and family buy about 4 others in that range. If you’ve got this vintage Subaru, you know exactly what I’m talking about. Politely tell them you’re not interested in their lowball offer, but thanks for coming to look at it.

Worst case scenario, keep it as a spare vehicle for emergencies or when your regular needs shop work. Liability only is probably <$40/mo, and drive it to work or to get groceries every Friday to keep things moving and in good condition. You’ll be much happier this way than giving into those serial abusers!

 

[Impatient]

Yeah, I should take more control over the vehicle inspection process.. And thank you for prompting me to toughen up. He would be paying for it. But I could see a situation where he tries to lowball me after inspection/oil change, and then I say “no,” then I end up with some cheap oil in the car I didn’t actually sell. So at very least, I’ll ask for decision / signing before actual oil change. Then, it’s on him 100%.

BUT, is Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 as good as/better than Castrol Euro 0w30? For a 19 year old Subaru? I’ll look into the VOA’s, but just in case someone (like @edyvw ) already knows….

Oh, @SubieRubyRoo it’s a 2007 Outback XT (turbo EJ25x) with a stick shift, and dramatically improved Bilstein suspension. Improved handling/road stability, typically at expense of NVH or plushness. Very fun and responsive…basically a Legacy GT spec B (almost like WRX/STI), but with Outback body, and “only” 260hp. Way more fun than my newer 3.6R…which also has Bilsteins.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yeah, I should take more control over the vehicle inspection process.. And thank you for prompting me to toughen up. He would be paying for it. But I could see a situation where he tries to lowball me after inspection/oil change, and then I say “no,” then I end up with some cheap oil in the car I didn’t actually sell. So at very least, I’ll ask for decision / signing before actual oil change. Then, it’s on him 100%.

BUT, is Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 as good as/better than Castrol Euro 0w30? For a 19 year old Subaru? I’ll look into the VOA’s, but just in case someone (like @edyvw ) already knows….

Oh, @SubieRubyRoo it’s a 2007 Outback XT (turbo EJ25x) with a stick shift, and dramatically improved Bilstein suspension. Improved handling/road stability, typically at expense of NVH or plushness. Very fun and responsive…basically a Legacy GT spec B (almost like WRX/STI), but with Outback body, and “only” 260hp. Way more fun than my newer 3.6R…which also has Bilsteins.

Pics pls

The EJ255/7 (or any of the EJs for that matter) are not very hard on oil itself, except on oil temps in the XTs on track days. Any of the good 30wts like you mentioned will be fine, but for track use I’d definitely step up to a 40 grade (as long as it’s not Brotella!) and Mobil 1 FS 0w40 would be a perfect candidate for those days.

And yeah, I know what both your model and the Spec B are…

I’ve gotta ask though… why get rid of that one?

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, I should take more control over the vehicle inspection process.. And thank you for prompting me to toughen up. He would be paying for it. But I could see a situation where he tries to lowball me after inspection/oil change, and then I say “no,” then I end up with some cheap oil in the car I didn’t actually sell. So at very least, I’ll ask for decision / signing before actual oil change. Then, it’s on him 100%.

BUT, is Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 as good as/better than Castrol Euro 0w30? For a 19 year old Subaru? I’ll look into the VOA’s, but just in case someone (like @edyvw ) already knows….

Oh, @SubieRubyRoo it’s a 2007 Outback XT (turbo EJ25x) with a stick shift, and dramatically improved Bilstein suspension. Improved handling/road stability, typically at expense of NVH or plushness. Very fun and responsive…basically a Legacy GT spec B (almost like WRX/STI), but with Outback body, and “only” 260hp. Way more fun than my newer 3.6R…which also has Bilsteins.

It is hard to tell which one is “better.” Castrol is PAO/Group III. ESP 0W30 is PAO/GTL/Ester. But Castrol has lower Noack, which indicates really good base stocks. I use in my BMW over winter Castrol. It is full SAPS, which allows more flexibility to blend final product.
I will probably use ESP in my Sequoia. So, it is choosing between two superb oils.
I say run both, see which one is warmer around your heart

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Oil change....no. What is his reasoning? To see if glitter and chunks come out of the oil while draining?

As far as a vehicle inspection...take it to an independent shop. A Subaru dealership, although well qualified, is probably going to do what they would do for any other customer.

They'll probably recommend their 120k miles service (or whatever miles) which includes a coolant flush, transmission and differential service, your door hinges and locks lubricated, door seals and weatherstripping conditioned, 512 point inspection, etc. They will probably tell you that you need new brakes, ball joints and whatever else doesn't look brand new.

 

[Kennedy01]

So what if somebody's engine mfr recommends just any old Xw20, but they choose to run an Xw30 RC? Can that person honestly be called a thickie here? I mean, sure, they used a grade heavier than recommended, but then chose an oil that's still basically a cold 20 grade anyways...

No.