I said in a previous post that Mobil'1 GTL plant won't start producing GTL basestocks until 2011 according to what I read. It could very well be that PAO's become a thing of the past if the GTL's performance is that good. Tom said that Mobil is no longer selling PAO's to outside companies and only using them internally. Still 4-5 years away though for GTL....
Mobil 1 and grp III continued.
- Thread starter Bryanccfshr
- Start date
- Status
True if they were using it it would seem that marketing would capitilize on this as a "technology of the future"
Another suspicion I have is how the pour point ans CCV has been impacted. If they were using ultra premium High VI grp III base oils the impact would not be so obvious.. Though perhaps the use and proportion of AN's is the culprit for that. If they would ditch the AN for some Polyol ester the VI would shoot way up in the formulation but that's a $$$ issue.
Another suspicion I have is how the pour point ans CCV has been impacted. If they were using ultra premium High VI grp III base oils the impact would not be so obvious.. Though perhaps the use and proportion of AN's is the culprit for that. If they would ditch the AN for some Polyol ester the VI would shoot way up in the formulation but that's a $$$ issue.
The following was posted by Jeff Golem at Escape Central. It describes his experience in trying to talk to Exxon/Mobil about the composition of Mobil 1. See for yourself, but it looks like another example of Exxon/Mobil's lack of disclosure.
"I apologize in advance for this long post, but I really wanted to get this off my chest. This will give you a pretty good answer to what Mobil 1 uses in their "fully synthetic" motor oils.
I called Mobil's tech line and spoke to a live tech...
ME: I simply asked if Mobil 1, fully synthetic oil is still made from Group IV basestock or if they now use Group III like Castrol.
TECH: The guy actually audibly sighed and said "not another one of these"! His tone immediately changed from friendly to annoyed and began to recite the mantra from their website.
ME: I kindly told him that I did not call to start trouble but I simply wanted to know if they use Group III basestocks.
TECH: He told me that was proprietary information.
ME: So I told him that Amsoil tells the consumer which "fully synthetic" oils they make are from Group III and which are from Group IV. Most synthetic oil customers like to know this kind of "nerd" information that's all.
TECH: He got even angrier and said if it's good enough for all of the pro race car drivers they sponsor, then it's more than good enough for the public.
ME: I said this is obviously a touchy subject, but also just as important to Mobil as it is to me, since Mobil is the one who brought the lawsuit against Castrol years ago. I simply want to know if you have changed your formula over to Group III basestocks.
TECH: I can tell you that we use a proprietary mix which includes Group IV. I have already told you more than I should since I am a tech and you should have called the Mobil 1 hotline.
ME: Oh, should I call the Mobile 1 hotline to continue this discussion?
TECH: You can, but they won't tell you anything more than I will. I suggest you go to our website for all your answers.
ME: Yes, but that doesn't say anything either.
TECH: Yes, it says we are "fully synthetic"
ME: Yes, but that is just a marketing gimmick now since the court ruling that stated that oil made from Group III basestock can be called fully synthetic.
TECH: Are we done?
ME: Yes.
CONCLUSION: In my honest opinion based on this phone call Mobil 1 "fully synthetic" now uses Group III basestocks as well as Group IV basestocks. What percentage is from each group we may never know. I can only assume that it is a large percentage from Group III since they are fighting so hard to not let anyone know they are now using Group III basestock.
Final word...for now, I still like Mobil 1. With that being said, I am not a chemist so I have no idea of the quality implications resulting from making fully synthetic motor oil using Group III basestocks versus Group IV basestocks but I suspect Mobil knows and they are the ones trying to keep things secret. Again...in my opinion."
"I apologize in advance for this long post, but I really wanted to get this off my chest. This will give you a pretty good answer to what Mobil 1 uses in their "fully synthetic" motor oils.
I called Mobil's tech line and spoke to a live tech...
ME: I simply asked if Mobil 1, fully synthetic oil is still made from Group IV basestock or if they now use Group III like Castrol.
TECH: The guy actually audibly sighed and said "not another one of these"! His tone immediately changed from friendly to annoyed and began to recite the mantra from their website.
ME: I kindly told him that I did not call to start trouble but I simply wanted to know if they use Group III basestocks.
TECH: He told me that was proprietary information.
ME: So I told him that Amsoil tells the consumer which "fully synthetic" oils they make are from Group III and which are from Group IV. Most synthetic oil customers like to know this kind of "nerd" information that's all.
TECH: He got even angrier and said if it's good enough for all of the pro race car drivers they sponsor, then it's more than good enough for the public.
ME: I said this is obviously a touchy subject, but also just as important to Mobil as it is to me, since Mobil is the one who brought the lawsuit against Castrol years ago. I simply want to know if you have changed your formula over to Group III basestocks.
TECH: I can tell you that we use a proprietary mix which includes Group IV. I have already told you more than I should since I am a tech and you should have called the Mobil 1 hotline.
ME: Oh, should I call the Mobile 1 hotline to continue this discussion?
TECH: You can, but they won't tell you anything more than I will. I suggest you go to our website for all your answers.
ME: Yes, but that doesn't say anything either.
TECH: Yes, it says we are "fully synthetic"
ME: Yes, but that is just a marketing gimmick now since the court ruling that stated that oil made from Group III basestock can be called fully synthetic.
TECH: Are we done?
ME: Yes.
CONCLUSION: In my honest opinion based on this phone call Mobil 1 "fully synthetic" now uses Group III basestocks as well as Group IV basestocks. What percentage is from each group we may never know. I can only assume that it is a large percentage from Group III since they are fighting so hard to not let anyone know they are now using Group III basestock.
Final word...for now, I still like Mobil 1. With that being said, I am not a chemist so I have no idea of the quality implications resulting from making fully synthetic motor oil using Group III basestocks versus Group IV basestocks but I suspect Mobil knows and they are the ones trying to keep things secret. Again...in my opinion."
It's what they "don't" tell you that is so "telling". Exxon Mobil's responses, especially the conversation above, os also quite "telling".
Look at ANY big car forum now, these BITOG threads about group III Mobil 1 are EVERYWHERE. The marketing department at Mobil better pull thy heads from thy butts!
Look at ANY big car forum now, these BITOG threads about group III Mobil 1 are EVERYWHERE. The marketing department at Mobil better pull thy heads from thy butts!
I've seen it on the BMW boards...that's one of their bigger constituencies. any others? gotta believe Mercedes is the one they would get a quake from.
stupid thing is that they could fix the entire problem, and make all of us eat "humble pie", by simply putting on their web sites that M1 is PAO and higher base stocks (even with a disclaimer about small amounts of additive carrier).
Simple.
Simple.
Yes it's getting around Mobil 1's publicity.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Doesn't AMSOIL supposedly buy their PAO from Mobil?
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
After reading all the threads on this issue, I don't think the basic question of what does grpIV do better than a top quality recently formulated GrpIII has been answered. If the bad stuff is removed in GrpIII manufacturing processes, and GrpIV comes from some sort of petroleum anyhow, I feel we are just wasting a lot of bandwith here..
And those who feel that the whole point is they feel the product has been misrepresented, divorce happens to 50% of all relationships.
And those who feel that the whole point is they feel the product has been misrepresented, divorce happens to 50% of all relationships.
Ah but the real question remains. From what I have gathered is that Group IV and V and beyond while created out of dino are completely synthesized molecules that are not naturally occurring. It just has lots of the correct elements available. But from what I gather the Group III is just like creating a perfect GP I or II oil that does not occur naturally often enough but is just like remixing the rest until you get all the elements to align to make nearly perfect DINO oil. Yes it is synthesized but why it still shows as a Dino oil in G.C. Now being the nearly perfect Dino oil it is pretty ________ good but not necessarily as good as the stuff man created from recombining molecules to make truley man made substances to overcome obstacles that Dino can't.
Quote:
I tried, once again, to get an answer out of Mobil's tech department. I spoke with Lucille.
She said that after the post hit the internet, they went and asked their R&D/Chemists about it. They told her that someone "maybe" able to distinguish between a Group III and PAO but it's not likely. It's extremely difficult to distinguish between a Group III/PAO using a GC scan. She said Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic oil using PAO's like it always has been.
Kinda obvious since only a handfull of compaines have the lab rescources and knowhow/exsperience to run a accurate GC
which apparently the only way to "see" a GPIII vs a PAO
that any change would be undetecable. By the bad luck for XOM, Hatco is one of the companys that can do it.
bruce
Oh brother.
Quote:
Oh brother.The guy needs to come out of retirement so he'll have something to do besides blindly support ExxonMobil.
The guy's a wanker.
Quote:
Quote:
Oh brother.The guy needs to come out of retirement so he'll have something to do besides blindly support ExxonMobil.
The guy's a wanker.
You should see some of the e-mails he sent me after I banned him.
- Status
Similar threads
