Mobil 1 and Fe -additives?

[buster]

"I think Redline would be imediately condemned if it started showing high Fe."

It was condemned a long time ago and the more we all learned from the experts on the board, the more we realized, it's not that simple. That is what lead to the M1 Fe debate. Which in all fairness, does make a good deal of sense.

As said above, it could easily be either of the two. Regardless, it's nothing to worry about, just a small nuance that bugs the **** out of most BITOG fanatics. We strive for perfection here....even though no such thing exists.

 

[1sttruck]

OEM requirements support Ted, where turbo diesels are commonly spec'd to use a 15W40 HDEO. PCMO specs seem to be subset of HDEO specs on cleaning and anti-wear, as PCMO have compromised those attributes for mileage and emissions; current PCMOs are 'castrated oil's :^)

Anectodal data supports Ted, where one gentleman reported chronic part failures on his drag bike using a synthetic PCMO, and solved the problem with Delvac 1, allowing his parts to wear out, however quickly. Another gentleman had cam scuffing and other wear problems using Mobil 1 PCMO in his Audi for club racing, a 30W of some sort as I recall, and he solved his problems with Delvac 1.

 

[buster]

OEM supports 5w-20 and GF-4 last time I checked. Not oils with high levels of ZDDP.

I'm not arguing to argue. I'm trying to reach a conclusion on this. I have no issue with being wrong. It's just not what I've seen on BITOG.

The issue was originally - M1 & Fe levels. My point was, why do oils of similar visosity and additive levels show great wear.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Exactly Winston, as it should be. I don't think Iron particles will react the same in an engine as copper and lead. I.e. you will not re-embed an iron particle into a different part of the engine than where it came from.

 

[buster]

1sttruck you make alot of good points. I think with newer additives replacing ZDDP, it will be more hard to really determine what is wear via used oil analysis. However, for now I'm assuming the M1 Fe is a film/displacement/corrosive type effect. Extremely small and nothing to be concerned about, but annoying. I try and stay objective about all of this.

1. GF-4 thin conventional oils - great wear/fe
2. RL - reacts with certain metals (ex.- German engines show great wear with RL/Honda's don't).
3. Excellent bearing wear, Fe wear average. (in some engines.) Toyota's M1 is top.

 

[1sttruck]

On the higher wear metals with Redline, some have reported that that the levels drop after a good cleaning. Exxon has stated that their synthetic blend aircraft oils will produce higher wear metals in a used oil analysis due to some additional cleaning of existing films left from other oils. Royal Purple states the same for their passenger vehicle oils. If you do some online research in anti-wear films you'll find that they've only made good headway on understanding how they fairly recently, as it's been prompted by the search for alternatives to ZDDP.

 

[buster]

What exactly is "high" Fe wear? According to this, anything 100ppm - 200ppm is normal.

http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/farmpower/nf225.htm

 

[buster]

"some AW and anti-oxidant additives contain Fe compounds in order to get the reaction started with the steel surfaces"...something to consider.

 

[dkryan]

Why the "...soon to be Amsoil?" Are you having problems with the EP? I'm assuming the used oil analysis results will follow shortly after the change?

 

[TooSlick]

Normal Iron Wear:

1.8L-2.4L, Four Cylinder, 1.5-2.5 ppm/1000 miles

2.5L-4.0L, Six Cylinder, 2.0-3.5 ppm/1000 miles

5.0L-6.5L, V-8, 3.0-5.0 ppm/1000 miles


Notes:

1) Pushrod engines and/or OHC engines that use fully lubricated timing chains will generally show significantly higher iron levels than OHC or DOHC engines that using timing belts that run dry. These OHC type engines typically have direct acting camshafts and simply have fewer ferrous materials to wear. If Chrome levels are also high, a significant # of the Fe is coming from the cylinder walls. If Cr and Ni are both high, suspect abrasive wear of the intake and/or exhaust valve stems....

2) Iron levels (concentrations) are a function of engine displacement, engine design and sump capacity. You need to consider all three parameters when evaluating Fe.

Tooslick

 

[buster]

So Ted, based on those figures above, I'd say Mobil 1 is clearly in the "normal" range most of the time. And if what Molekule said has any impact on this, it's even harder to determine. I guess most of us shoot for exceptional, and normal is just not good enough for most BITOG members.

dkyran, my decision to change to Amsoil 0w30 is for 2 reaons. I still have my PC discount with them and I'm not comfortable with the Fe we see with Mobil 1. Amsoil also shows well in the Honda 2.4L as we've seen with 3 used oil analysis with 13k miles on them. I still have the M1 in the engine with about 4k miles on it.