Mobil 1 0w40 to become factory fill on Corvettes
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Originally Posted By: DAC17
Now that the 2019's are out, GM has made a decision to use the new 0W40 in ALL C7 Corvettes for both street and track use.
You're not paying attention. 15w50 is still required for track use on the ZR1. Again:
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I see it now from Patman's link. "Regarding the ZR1 and the LT5 engine, the small print on this label shows that Chevrolet recommends using Mobil 1’s 15W-50 for maximum track performance, so it does appear that ZR1 owners who plan on tracking their Corvettes will still want to use the 15W-50 for track dates and then switch to the 0W-40 for street use."
Now that the 2019's are out, GM has made a decision to use the new 0W40 in ALL C7 Corvettes for both street and track use.
You're not paying attention. 15w50 is still required for track use on the ZR1. Again:
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I see it now from Patman's link. "Regarding the ZR1 and the LT5 engine, the small print on this label shows that Chevrolet recommends using Mobil 1’s 15W-50 for maximum track performance, so it does appear that ZR1 owners who plan on tracking their Corvettes will still want to use the 15W-50 for track dates and then switch to the 0W-40 for street use."
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Can't find M1 0w40 ESP on the US website, but found it on the UK site.
It looks a little stouter than M1 0w40 FS, at least the HTHS is 5% higher. TBN is less, but who really needs 12.3 TBN these days? Phosphorous is 800 ppm, while FS has 1000. But modern engines have been living on 800 ppm Phos for years.
I would put the dividing line for 15w50 on supercharged vs non-supercharged. The LT4 has a reputation as a hot-running engine. Naturally aspirated LT1's should be fine on 0w40 ESP for street and track use.
It looks a little stouter than M1 0w40 FS, at least the HTHS is 5% higher. TBN is less, but who really needs 12.3 TBN these days? Phosphorous is 800 ppm, while FS has 1000. But modern engines have been living on 800 ppm Phos for years.
I would put the dividing line for 15w50 on supercharged vs non-supercharged. The LT4 has a reputation as a hot-running engine. Naturally aspirated LT1's should be fine on 0w40 ESP for street and track use.
4WD
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Bet all the first batches are straight to GM until caught up …
Patman
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
Bet all the first batches are straight to GM until caught up …
They have said that GM dealers will have the 0w40 in stock as of today but retail stores won't be getting it until about 6 months time.
Bet all the first batches are straight to GM until caught up …
They have said that GM dealers will have the 0w40 in stock as of today but retail stores won't be getting it until about 6 months time.
4WD
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Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Bet all the first batches are straight to GM until caught up …
They have said that GM dealers will have the 0w40 in stock as of today but retail stores won't be getting it until about 6 months time.
Watch Camaro ZL cut in line too …
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Bet all the first batches are straight to GM until caught up …
They have said that GM dealers will have the 0w40 in stock as of today but retail stores won't be getting it until about 6 months time.
Watch Camaro ZL cut in line too …
All this trouble: "change the oil to 15w50 (ZR1-LT5) before track day pre-race but don't use 15w50 on the street..."
and/or "We're just going to tell you to put in thick-ish 0w40 and say its good for most racing too"
is not necessary.
You can keep your relatively thin street oil in the sump and still race at high enough HTHS levels by using a thick addition to your sump, adding base oil with PAO+POE+GroupIII, maybe with a little extra ZDDP too. Add before track day.
Mobil and GM could provide guidance on how much to add, but it could be done so someone doesn't keep dumping tons of barely used sump oil for track day.
Certainly phosphorus (catalyst-killing) levels could be avoided, possibly by adding more polymer esters instead of something which boosts zddp too much, so you could use the race-oil concoction on the street for a while after track day until change time.
Saves trouble, cost, waste, and time.
Very similar to Joe Gibbs HVL ( http://www.drivenracingoil.com/newsfiles/HVLMSDS.pdf )
and/or "We're just going to tell you to put in thick-ish 0w40 and say its good for most racing too"
is not necessary.
You can keep your relatively thin street oil in the sump and still race at high enough HTHS levels by using a thick addition to your sump, adding base oil with PAO+POE+GroupIII, maybe with a little extra ZDDP too. Add before track day.
Mobil and GM could provide guidance on how much to add, but it could be done so someone doesn't keep dumping tons of barely used sump oil for track day.
Certainly phosphorus (catalyst-killing) levels could be avoided, possibly by adding more polymer esters instead of something which boosts zddp too much, so you could use the race-oil concoction on the street for a while after track day until change time.
Saves trouble, cost, waste, and time.
Very similar to Joe Gibbs HVL ( http://www.drivenracingoil.com/newsfiles/HVLMSDS.pdf )
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
All this trouble: "change the oil to 15w50 (ZR1-LT5) before track day pre-race but don't use 15w50 on the street..."
and/or "We're just going to tell you to put in thick-ish 0w40 and say its good for most racing too"
is not necessary.
You can keep your relatively thin street oil in the sump and still race at high enough HTHS levels by using a thick addition to your sump, adding base oil with PAO+POE+GroupIII, maybe with a little extra ZDDP too. Add before track day.
Mobil and GM could provide guidance on how much to add, but it could be done so someone doesn't keep dumping tons of barely used sump oil for track day.
Certainly phosphorus (catalyst-killing) levels could be avoided, possibly by adding more polymer esters instead of something which boosts zddp too much, so you could use the race-oil concoction on the street for a while after track day until change time.
Saves trouble, cost, waste, and time.
Very similar to Joe Gibbs HVL ( http://www.drivenracingoil.com/newsfiles/HVLMSDS.pdf )
It's all just a ruse. Even if you do run catalyst-friendly oil, if you do enough track days, it will kill your cats anyway. I killed two sets of cats in my LS1 Camaro in four years of track driving, then gave up on them. The only place that you could run your 650 or 750 HP Corvette to enjoy its performance to the maximum is on a race track. In that environment, it is easy to burn a quart in a few hours of track time. In comparison, street driving entails very little oil consumption, so the high-zddp 15w50 would not be damaging the cats very much. GM may say to change back to ILSAC oil for street use, but that is just to make the EPA happy. People who can afford a $100k ZR1 Corvette would not give a hang if you told them that 50-weight oil will hurt the car's fuel economy by 2%.
All this trouble: "change the oil to 15w50 (ZR1-LT5) before track day pre-race but don't use 15w50 on the street..."
and/or "We're just going to tell you to put in thick-ish 0w40 and say its good for most racing too"
is not necessary.
You can keep your relatively thin street oil in the sump and still race at high enough HTHS levels by using a thick addition to your sump, adding base oil with PAO+POE+GroupIII, maybe with a little extra ZDDP too. Add before track day.
Mobil and GM could provide guidance on how much to add, but it could be done so someone doesn't keep dumping tons of barely used sump oil for track day.
Certainly phosphorus (catalyst-killing) levels could be avoided, possibly by adding more polymer esters instead of something which boosts zddp too much, so you could use the race-oil concoction on the street for a while after track day until change time.
Saves trouble, cost, waste, and time.
Very similar to Joe Gibbs HVL ( http://www.drivenracingoil.com/newsfiles/HVLMSDS.pdf )
It's all just a ruse. Even if you do run catalyst-friendly oil, if you do enough track days, it will kill your cats anyway. I killed two sets of cats in my LS1 Camaro in four years of track driving, then gave up on them. The only place that you could run your 650 or 750 HP Corvette to enjoy its performance to the maximum is on a race track. In that environment, it is easy to burn a quart in a few hours of track time. In comparison, street driving entails very little oil consumption, so the high-zddp 15w50 would not be damaging the cats very much. GM may say to change back to ILSAC oil for street use, but that is just to make the EPA happy. People who can afford a $100k ZR1 Corvette would not give a hang if you told them that 50-weight oil will hurt the car's fuel economy by 2%.
I haven’t paid much attention to oil lately and noticed the ESP 5w30 meets dexos 2. The ESP line of oils all seem very stout. Does anyone think ESP 0w40 will replace FS 0w40? I noticed the PDS for the refgular FS 0w40 is currently not available.
Originally Posted By: buster
Does anyone think ESP 0w40 will replace FS 0w40?
Maybe eventually, but not anytime soon. They are two very different products, targeted at different markets. One is full SAPS, the other is mid/low SAPS. Each was designed to meet different mfg specs. Many of these specs are mutually exclusive, so you can't have one oil meeting them all.
Does anyone think ESP 0w40 will replace FS 0w40?
Maybe eventually, but not anytime soon. They are two very different products, targeted at different markets. One is full SAPS, the other is mid/low SAPS. Each was designed to meet different mfg specs. Many of these specs are mutually exclusive, so you can't have one oil meeting them all.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Perhaps GM plans on using this oil in a lot more applications in the future? I'm not sure of the politics of it all, I just know that the Corvette requires dexos1, so this new oil has to meet that spec.
This is from Mobil themselves.
Quote:
Applications
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is recommended for all types of modern automobile engines, especially the high-performance gasoline and diesel engines found in the latest passenger cars, SUVs and light vans.
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 has the General Motors Service Fill dexos2™ approval, which is required for all 2010 new GM/Opel/Vauxhall/Chevrolet Diesel and Gasoline models. GM/Opel have advised that dexos2™ specification is backward compatible to older GM/Opel specifications (GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025). The majority of GM/Opel/Vauxhall/Chevrolet Diesel and Gasoline vehicles can use dexos2™ lubricants.
GM Europe sells some US models like the Vette and Camero at the dealer level they are spec and back spec for 0w40 dexos 2.
Perhaps GM plans on using this oil in a lot more applications in the future? I'm not sure of the politics of it all, I just know that the Corvette requires dexos1, so this new oil has to meet that spec.
This is from Mobil themselves.
Quote:
Applications
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is recommended for all types of modern automobile engines, especially the high-performance gasoline and diesel engines found in the latest passenger cars, SUVs and light vans.
Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 has the General Motors Service Fill dexos2™ approval, which is required for all 2010 new GM/Opel/Vauxhall/Chevrolet Diesel and Gasoline models. GM/Opel have advised that dexos2™ specification is backward compatible to older GM/Opel specifications (GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025). The majority of GM/Opel/Vauxhall/Chevrolet Diesel and Gasoline vehicles can use dexos2™ lubricants.
GM Europe sells some US models like the Vette and Camero at the dealer level they are spec and back spec for 0w40 dexos 2.
Originally Posted By: Trav
GM Europe sells some US models like the Vette and Camero at the dealer level they are spec and back spec for 0w40 dexos 2.
Again, as North America gets more low-sulphur gasoline consistently, you may see more low to mid saps oils being used here. Also, if you EPA MPG CAFE certify the engine using a low-HTHS oil, then you have to recommend that oil to the customers.
So what happens in Euro doesn't necessarily apply to N. America.
GM Europe sells some US models like the Vette and Camero at the dealer level they are spec and back spec for 0w40 dexos 2.
Again, as North America gets more low-sulphur gasoline consistently, you may see more low to mid saps oils being used here. Also, if you EPA MPG CAFE certify the engine using a low-HTHS oil, then you have to recommend that oil to the customers.
So what happens in Euro doesn't necessarily apply to N. America.
What oil did GM use to do durability field and lab testing (Corvettes)?
I've always heard thats pretty tough testing. { google: "Car and Driver How Powertrain Development Teams Ensure Durability By Beating the Out of Engines" } I can't post the link since it has a dirty word in the URL and gets blanked out.
And wouldn't durability testing on Corvettes include track time extensively? Maybe not for an Equinox, but Vettes yes.
So why would 15w50 (ZR1-LT5) and 0w40 be required for track usage when they beat the holy hades out of the Vette in durability testing using dexos1 5w30? Assuming they used regular flavor M1 5w30 when flogging it.
Its as if they are saying customers flog it harder than they do at Milford Proving Grounds and the Nurburgring (GM has been testing at the Nurburgring for many years.)
I've always heard thats pretty tough testing. { google: "Car and Driver How Powertrain Development Teams Ensure Durability By Beating the Out of Engines" } I can't post the link since it has a dirty word in the URL and gets blanked out.
And wouldn't durability testing on Corvettes include track time extensively? Maybe not for an Equinox, but Vettes yes.
So why would 15w50 (ZR1-LT5) and 0w40 be required for track usage when they beat the holy hades out of the Vette in durability testing using dexos1 5w30? Assuming they used regular flavor M1 5w30 when flogging it.
Its as if they are saying customers flog it harder than they do at Milford Proving Grounds and the Nurburgring (GM has been testing at the Nurburgring for many years.)
I wonder where Chevy got their inspiration for the design from? Or is it just me?
Originally Posted By: RemingtonHill
I wonder where Chevy got their inspiration for the design from? Or is it just me?
Definitely just you. They look nothing alike.
On 2nd thought, Chevy has a long history of copying Honda's awesome styling. Case in point: The 1969 Honda N600 looks just like a '69 Corvette:
I wonder where Chevy got their inspiration for the design from? Or is it just me?
Definitely just you. They look nothing alike.
On 2nd thought, Chevy has a long history of copying Honda's awesome styling. Case in point: The 1969 Honda N600 looks just like a '69 Corvette:
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: RemingtonHill
I wonder where Chevy got their inspiration for the design from? Or is it just me?
Definitely just you. They look nothing alike.
Not to mention a lot of cars have similar bumper/front design these days.
Originally Posted By: RemingtonHill
I wonder where Chevy got their inspiration for the design from? Or is it just me?
Definitely just you. They look nothing alike.
Not to mention a lot of cars have similar bumper/front design these days.
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