MMO vs TCW3 as a fuel additive

I don't mess with MMO much but I LOVE some TCW-3 in my 05 PSD truck, the HEUI system loves the added lubricity. I overdose usually a full quart to a tank but the truck gains 2-3 MPG on average as well as easier starts and smoother idle. Of course, I have no CAT or emissions system left on the truck so I'm not worried about any harm there.
 
dblshock, what brand of tcw3 have you been using? The results are great! currently have walmart ST tcw3 and mag1 tcw3. I ran 1 pint of Pennzoil marine tcw3 through the truck (copver a few fillups) and didnt see any difference. I'm wondering if all tcw3 is the same?
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
TCW3 is oil to be mixed with gas for 2 cycle water cooled gasoline engines (outboard boat engines). It is ashless and meets NMMA TC-W3 standards. There are a lot of people using it as a UCL in their cars and claim increased mpgs, and some other benefits similar to MMO. That's why I started this thread, I wanted to see what benefits if any, other members are seeing using either of these products.


Demarpaint, how about any updates?

I have been using 2oz (in Top Tier gas) to 4oz (non-top tier) per 10 gallons
and have been getting close to 20 mpg at times in my 4.6 liter F150

I'm going to mix MMO and TCW-III 50/50 and start to use it at 2oz per 10 gallons (1oz in 5) in all fuels.


I still use it, in all honesty I don't log mpg, and haven't for quite some time. I have an EVIC that tells me mpg, and it is starting to go up again due to the seasonal change. What I did observe was the spark plugs have remained clean in my OPE, my mower and power washer started on one pull after sitting all winter, and run very well. The vehicles I use it in run well too. Sorry but that's about all I can report, and it isn't telling much one way or the other. I'm anxious to see how the plugs look in the Liberty, but they aren't due for a change anytime soon.
 
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
dblshock, what brand of tcw3 have you been using? The results are great! currently have walmart ST tcw3 and mag1 tcw3. I ran 1 pint of Pennzoil marine tcw3 through the truck (copver a few fillups) and didnt see any difference. I'm wondering if all tcw3 is the same?


I sent him a Pm once and he told me Quicksilver, it is sold at Walmart.
 
actually I buy what's on sale the cheap Quicksilver or ST even cheap Valvoline but has to be TC-W3 spec.
 
and I'm persistent, even taught the GF to measure out and fill in 5 gal increments so it's consistent, consent, in both engines...kinda gives me the warm fuzzy I guess.
 
I ran TCW-3 in DI and started seeing a bit of soot on the tailpipes. Need to find the right treat rate or something else (currently Redline SI-1).
 
First tank finished with 2 ounces to 20 gallons +-. No change in MPG. The truck seemed to run a little smoother. This is with using Supertech TCW3. Will run the next tank with no additives then run the next with at 3 ounces to 20 gallons.
 
I used to use ashless 2 stroke oil in my old TDI, which came from the time when the switch to ULSD was made in Europe and the high pressure fuel pumps had lubricity issues. While it did (apparently) lube the pump, I never had any other benefits.

Smoother running engine? The V6 TDI from Audi with the well built and shielded interior was as smooth as a V6 gas engine, inside the car you never ever had the impression at any time that it was a Diesel.

Did it help against the injector issues that engine from 2005 was known for? No, not at all. I had to replace the injectors (all 6 of them) because of worn needle seats at the same mileage as others that never used 2stroke oil in the Diesel. The difference between my injectors and from others V6 TDI's which haven't used 2 stroke oil in the Diesel was there, but miniscule.

Did I gain or loose mileage? No, not at all. Not better, not worse.

Differences at the Diesel filter that may lead to conclusions of cleaning the fuel system? None.

Camera images through the injector holes - I expected a perfectly clean piston. No, didn't happen. Diesel Engines are dirty at the end of the day.

Furthermore you could - albeit slightly with the V6 TDI - feel that if you dosed over a certain amount you lost some power. Apparently 2stroke oil in the diesel alters the timing of compression ignition.

Cleaner EGR: In theory the EGR system should be cleaner because of the supposedly cleaner burn. No, didn't happen. My EGR was a complete mess, so was my intake system. After 100.000 miles with 2 stroke and cleaning additives in the tank: A gooey, sticky, sooty mess. What does help here tough is regular disassembly and manual cleaning with EGR cleaners.

With the new Euro6 with SCR catalyst Diesel I'm currently not using any 2stroke oil in the diesel. First, by now pump manufacturers should have learnt to deal with ULSD and then I haven't done enough research wether the Euro6 compliant DPF with SCR and Adblue (=DEF) is "unfragile" enough to deal with the extra 2stroke oil. Even tough most 2stroke diesel users claim that 2stroke combusts more complete and cleaner than diesel itself.


I did use it at 640:1 in my motorcycle as well, (Suzuki Boulevard C50, Piaggio 125cc scooter). The piaggio left a 2stroke smell and slightly blue faint out of the exhaust when left to sit for longer periods (more than a week), the Suzuki didn't. But both of them had a visible black soot layer in the end of the tailpipe. When ran with pure premium gas they didn't have that much soot in the end of the exhaust, only slightly and lighter in color.

Tried it in my sisters 125cc scooter, aircooled 4 stroke, around 500:1, after a few hundred miles it left residue in the exhaust that smoked after being shut off. I manually cleaned the exhaust and left the 2 stroke oil out. Clean exhaust ever since. Residue was minimal, but still there - which means it covered the catalytic converter. Nowhere near as bad as a real 2 stroke exhaust, really minimal only compared to a real 2 stroke, but it was there.

Tried it in my fathers car, 2.4 JTD with no DPF. At the yearly emissions check, I should in theory have seen a better result. But I didn't. The results were not worse, but not better. The ppm of soot out of the exhaust get measured via a sond in the exhaust, max acceleration from idle to rev limiter.

Honda GCVx lawn mower: 2stroke oil added 640:1 compared to Shell V-Power gas alone: With 2 stroke I can see blacker soot around the exhaust holes than if I run Shell V-Power gas by itself (less and lighter in color soot at the exhaust holes). The lawn mower when cold started always gives a nice small blue 2stroke smell small cloud at startup that disappears immediately. But it is there, even at 640:1.


From 2012 on I used to believe that a little 2 stroke in the diesel as well as gas, for gas there's a long, long thread at ls1tech.com. Nowadays, after all my observation started with my TDI over my motorcycles as well as lawn mower I'm more sceptical than convinced. I never saw the improvements I should have seen according to 2stroke oil in 4 stroke engine users, but I saw more negatives that I wasn't supposed to see.

So nowadays I run premium gas/diesel and at every yearly service I add a can of fuel cleaner treatment.
 
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I use tcw 3 with stabil for winter ope storage. I don't use it in my cars or truck. I used to use mmo in the oil back in the 80's but its not needed anymore with modern oils. Sometimes i use it as drill press oil, but i'm not sure if i should be using that for drill bits.
 
I had the same intention. My Suzuki Boulevard had a metal tank. So I contacted a major brand of oil and additive producer since I often read in the 2 stroke additive user community that the use of 2 stroke oil eliminates the need for stabilizer additives and other additives.

I told them that I have an outbord engine and I wanted to know wether there are stabilizers in the 2 stroke oil which are suitable for winter storage. They told me no and I should use a dedicated fuel stabilizer. They didn't have on in their own portfolio for boats so they recommended me to contact my boating supplier for a good product.

I ended up buying a can of Sta-bil.


So much for the stabilizing theory.
 
Used both.
I see no differeance in anything.
I still use tc w3 because it feels good.
Hoping im lubricating the fuel pump
 
Used both.
I see no differeance in anything.
I still use tc w3 because it feels good.
Hoping im lubricating the fuel pump

theoretically is it lubricating the pump. Wether that's needed or not may be a factor of when your pump has been designed and biult, when the switch to ULSD was made and so on. It did lubricate my pump in my 2005 TDI, it never failed. But maybe that would have been the same without 2 stroke. We'll never know.

Smoother engine - that appears to be because it delays ignition, that seems to be the consensus after a decade of 2 stroke oiling diesels.
 
In theory it acts as a UCL (Upper Cylinder Lubricant) so you may notice a slight smoothing out of performance. A while ago, meaning many years, I used Lucas UCL. For me the Lucas was not a cost effective solution so I stopped. The way I see this experiment is its acting as a UCL, injector lubricant and maybe provides some benefits in the combustion. I will try it for a while and see. If I find the maintenance dose may provide consistent MPG then I will stick with it as opposed to doing Sea Foam every 3000-5000 miles or Techron.
 
Amkeer, in theory it does a lot. But in reality in modern engines the benefits of TCW3 are negible. I did too believe in the injector lubrication and UCL, but see my real world experience in post #70.
 
I use MMO & Sta*Bil(1oz/2.5gal) in the Firebird(21 gal tank) in my signature as well as my OPE.
Actually, I try to calculate how much gas for each fill up in the car and go by the recommended dosage for each product as the car doesn't get drive that often during the summer only. Smoothness & MPG are up.

I've tried MMO in my EFI vehicles and don't notice a thing except maybe a CEL.
 
I would prefer Marvel. I don't believe tcw3 would have any cleaning capabilities. But maybe it does
 
So far I ran two tank fulls through with TCW3 and then one full tank without. The tank without gained about another .20 MPG. I am not sure if this is because the previous two lubricated, cleaned, which resulted in the gains or if not using it helped. I will add it again to this tank and keep the experiment going. Right now I am doing 2 ounces to 18-20 gallons of fuel. Before analysis average MPG was 17.19 MPG. The first two runs with additive 17.49. The run after the two with additive containing no additive is about 17.69. So we will see if it drops down a bit with the add.
 
it’s good you’re happy with the performance of the additive but there is no way on earth you could ever attribute a 0.2 MPG change to one isolated variable in everyday driving. Gasoline itself has a natural energy density variance even from the same station which is around 4%. There are a myriad other variables in driving that have similar effects, none of which are controlled. The number you listed is deep, deep into the noise.
 
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