MMO thinning oil

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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
So if the used oil analysis reports showed additional wear or a problem then you'd agree with them? You've obviously searched the www. high and low to try and find fault with MMO, and this was all you could find? I'd think in over 85 years if it were ruining engines we'd know, There are probably thousands if not tens of thousands of people running in their sump year round each and every OCI. A know a few personally that have done so for decades, with squeaky clean engines with very high miles on them.


I was looking for an additive (reasonably priced) to add to diesel fuel since the VP44 in my pickup needs lubrication and its not a guarantee that all diesel fuel has the proper lubrication additives for my engine given that its all ULSD now. So I came across this set of test results and decided to go with 2 cycle oil bought by the gallon at Walmart. However I got to thinking that the MMO test result is also valid for engine oil use of MMO.

As a cleaner, I would go with Kreen of AutoRx.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: Donald
I would not think its a good idea to add something to the oil that hurts the lubricity of the engine oil and run it for any period of time. Thats why Amsoil flush is run at fast idle, no load and for 20 or 30 minutes.

Maybe MMO could be run like Amsoil flush under the same contitions.

I am not sure one UOA tells a whole lot about whether MMO helps or hurts lubricity.

My comments are on the lubricating side of MMO, not the cleaning side. You may conclude the cleaning effects outweigh the drop in lubricity. If so, Walmart has MMO by the gallon jug at their stores.

Think I should repeat myself here. MMO was created to go in an engine's oil, was created to do what we use it for, clean the inside of the engine. Not sure where people are getting the idea MMO is some foreign substance.


Just because MMO was created to go in engine oil does not mean that its any good.

As a general statement we agree, but I can't agree with your opinion on MMO. I've used it for decades and still do. The engines only benefited from its use, there were no setbacks.

Additives come and go. Lawsuits or bad press can halt sales and they disappear. This has not happened to MMO. Since 1930, it continues to be one of the most used, most popular additives. That says a lot. Everybody can't be wrong.
 
Also, MMO was GREAT for leaded fuel. It kept plugs and valves clean.
MMO is is used in aircraft for this reason today.
And, IN THE OIL too!- light aircraft use almost full throttle, and lead can build up on valves and choke out the engine. The MMO keeps this minimized.

I still need a special reason to use it in a modern car engine.
Fuel? All the time.
 
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald


As a cleaner, I would go with Kreen of AutoRx.


Been there done that I used all three. Skip the A-Rx if you're looking to clean an engine. Kreen or MMO will get the job done, cheaper, faster, and better.

If you want test results shoot Trav a PM he tested A-Rx in several applications with disappointing results across the board. Actually he's posted about it here.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.


4.5 years in the gas in my 08 Liberty, no P0420 code [yet], no problems. I'm not sure what catalyst efficiency setting it has but if I have a problem I will surely post it here. Oh yes and I've been warned, thanks!
smile.gif
 
Ok. Tell me if this is close. The Liberty doesn't burn any oil, spends a lot of time on the highway, and you use MMO in smaller maintenance doses?
 
Will do! The Liberty uses no oil, sees a mix of city highway driving, and gets 4 ounces of MMO/10gallons for gas. I wouldn't intentionally OD it like I've done with the Aerostar and E-150.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.


According to dealerships and Mfrs, normal oil use is acceptable from 1 qt/1k to 1 qt/ 3k. Most modern cars do way better, but oil use is acceptable.
So:
Using MMO [in a way less amount] is going to hurt the cat?? BTW, MMO and 2 stroke oil DO burn, not just pass through.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.

Leaky, I have a question. I've only used MMO in my Legend's engine. I was thinking of using it in the gas tank as well. Do you think it would be ok as it is a 1995 auto? I don't use it at all in my Ridgeline (2007).
 
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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.


According to dealerships and Mfrs, normal oil use is acceptable from 1 qt/1k to 1 qt/ 3k. Most modern cars do way better, but oil use is acceptable.
So:
Using MMO [in a way less amount] is going to hurt the cat?? BTW, MMO and 2 stroke oil DO burn, not just pass through.

Yeah, they say that. If they didn't the lines would be out the door for repairs. May be acceptable to them, does not mean your cats going to have a long life. 2 stroke like my lawnmower? Yeah, I use it in that. No cat to worry about.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.


According to dealerships and Mfrs, normal oil use is acceptable from 1 qt/1k to 1 qt/ 3k. Most modern cars do way better, but oil use is acceptable.
So:
Using MMO [in a way less amount] is going to hurt the cat?? BTW, MMO and 2 stroke oil DO burn, not just pass through.


That was my thinking all along. If you bought a new car and it was using a qt of oil every 1000 miles and you complained to the dealership service dept., they'd tell you it was normal and send you packing. A qt of MMO added to the gas over the period of a thousand miles is going to have a lot less of an impact on the CC than a qt of oil being burnt driving 1000 miles. That 400:1 ratio is probably about a qt of MMO per thousand miles of driving depending on the application and driving conditions. I set up my Inverse oiler to use about a qt of mmo/1000 miles. No problems to report adding it to gas since the 1970's. Maybe certain cars have an overly sensitive CEL??? I'm not sure.

Maybe in a modern car that burns oil adding TWC3, or MMO might not be a good idea. I found however that adding TCW3 or MMO to an oil burner reduced consumption slightly, my thinking is it makes a better ring seal. Of the two TCW3 worked best in an oil burner.
 
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Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'm the opposite. MMO for the sump is the same as it ever was. But because manufacturers increased the catalyst efficiency sensitivity to 95% on modern cars, no more MMO in the gas for me. Learned my lesson, so have a few people I helped extinguish a P0420 CEL for this week. Cats hate 1930's lubes and solvents, and because of the increased efficincy sensitivity will pop off a P0420 CEL easily with repeated MMO use.

"I been using it in the gas for decades, never a problem". Me too. But the high catalyst efficiency setting is recent, so remember I told you so.

Leaky, I have a question. I've only used MMO in my Legend's engine. I was thinking of using it in the gas tank as well. Do you think it would be ok as it is a 1995 auto? I don't use it at all in my Ridgeline (2007).

Its hard to say. The catalyst efficiency setting may be lower so you don't get a CEL, but because its older the cat has been in service longer. Because its older the likelihood of burning oil is higher. Thats when issues with MMO popping a cat CEL are noticed most, a shot of MMO over an oil soaked cat. Immersed in oil MMO does what its supposed to do, dissolve and clean. Exposed to air its a different story. The MMO will harden oil into a thick mass. If you guys want to know how I found that out let me know. I would use a PEA fuel cleaner product, a more recent chemistry, more recent testing.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Will do! The Liberty uses no oil, sees a mix of city highway driving, and gets 4 ounces of MMO/10gallons for gas. I wouldn't intentionally OD it like I've done with the Aerostar and E-150.

So..its fairly new, the MMO is the only oil the cat sees, your out on the highway heating the cat frequently, using small maintenance doses. Your case sounds ok (right now
laugh.gif
)
 
I don't have much personal experience with MMO in the gas tank but I can categorically state that overdosing with TC-W3 is a bad idea! The van really became sluggish and that was with even recommended 2oz/10gal dosage.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I don't have much personal experience with MMO in the gas tank but I can categorically state that overdosing with TC-W3 is a bad idea! The van really became sluggish and that was with even recommended 2oz/10gal dosage.


Agreed 100%! You can easily foul plugs.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Will do! The Liberty uses no oil, sees a mix of city highway driving, and gets 4 ounces of MMO/10gallons for gas. I wouldn't intentionally OD it like I've done with the Aerostar and E-150.

So..its fairly new, the MMO is the only oil the cat sees, your out on the highway heating the cat frequently, using small maintenance doses. Your case sounds ok (right now
laugh.gif
)


My E-150 is fairly old, as is the Aerostar. Like I said, when one of these Cats die I'll let you guys know. I can't imagine how a 400:1 ratio of MMO is going to harm anything.
 
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't imagine how a 400:1 ratio of MMO is going to harm anything.

Or do anything.




I couldn't resist, sorry.
blush.gif
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't imagine how a 400:1 ratio of MMO is going to harm anything.

Or do anything.




I couldn't resist, sorry.
blush.gif



LOL Good one! Actually I ran the numbers I run it at 320:1.

As a side note Red line calls for 1.5 ounces per 10 gallons of gas as a maint dose. Why so little?
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't imagine how a 400:1 ratio of MMO is going to harm anything.

Or do anything.




I couldn't resist, sorry.
blush.gif



LOL Good one! Actually I ran the numbers I run it at 320:1.

As a side note Red line calls for 1.5 ounces per 10 gallons of gas as a maint dose. Why so little?

No idea.

Si-1 MSDS:
30-50% PolyEther Amine
5-20% Aliphatic Naphtha
1-10% Isooctanol

"Contains synthetic upper cylinder lubricant". Wonder if thats the Isooctanol? If so its not much lube which is ok with me.
 
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