MMO increased valve noise

[Clubber_Lang]

At 66.4 K I added 14 oz. of MMO to the engine for the last 1500 Mi of my OCI. I did this after researching MMOs cleaning ability on BITOG. I bought this car (03 Corolla) at about 62K, prior to that it had 5k oil changes at the toyota dealearship since new, however it would sit for months in 5 degree winters without being started and was subjected to many short trips (severe service). With this in mind I decided to use M1EP 5w30 and MMO at the end of the OCI to safely clean out whatever gunk there may be in the engine. (When I drained the toyota fill at 62k it had about 6 months and about 5,000 miles on it didnt look bad at all.)

However after the first 200 miles of MMO being in the engine I have noticed that it noisier than before, in that the valve train noise is definately more pronounced. I'm sure the MMO has thinned the oil somewhat, but I'm wondering if Ive made a mistake.

Should I drain the oil and MMMO now, or let it in there to do its thing? Do you guys think the increased noise is indicative of increased wear, or inadequate lubrication, or is it harmless? I thought I had added a pretty conservative amount of this stuff. I'm really not looking to blow up my engine and hopfully havent started down that road.

2003 Corolla
M1EP5-30, M1 filter
14 oz MMO

 

[Clubber_Lang]

Also since the marvel mystery oil, when the engine is started cold it will "fast idle" higher than it did before, up to about 1400 rpms (constant and steady) for a couple minutes before coming back down to a normal idle speed.

 

[crazyoildude]

do an oil change and use a good filter and 5w30 nothing else
mmo is great stuff i use it but only for about a week and drive very slowly not over 40 on side streets then put the 5w30 back in

 

[MrMeeks]

MMO thins oil making your engine noisey.MMO is a decent solvent,but so is kerosene.

 

[Lethal1ty17]

its a toyota, you could run it 300k on vegatable oil.

its fine, marginal noise increase via thinning the oil is somewhat expected, it wont hurt it, run it however long you feel and then change it.

it wont cause any harm. and it didnt thin the oil that much. chillax. your 5w30 is probably dowm to a 5w25wt.

 

[5sfe91]

You're already using M1 EP thats a great oil and has a good cleaning ability. Keep using that ONLY no more MMO, let the M1 do its job and clean anything that might need cleaning.

Also change you PVC if you haven't

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
Also since the marvel mystery oil, when the engine is started cold it will "fast idle" higher than it did before, up to about 1400 rpms (constant and steady) for a couple minutes before coming back down to a normal idle speed.


Idle speed is controlled by an engine management system, so I don't see how MMO or any oil can cause a higher idle speed. Since the car is fairly new to you and temps are getting cooler the faster idle can be attributed to the cooler weather. My cold idle speed increases slightly when it gets colder and takes a little longer to kick down I doubt it is the MMO.

The filter could be loading up causing the increased valve train noise. People cleaning engines have noticed odd noises from time to time as dirt is being removed, or a filter loads up. If it were my car and I was concerned I'd run the 1000 miles as planned, switch over to your favorite oil, and repeat 1000 miles before the next OCI.

 

[Spyder7]

I've seen it said by some that the VVT-i is particularly sensitive to oil viscosity. When I added it to PP it had no effect on engine noise (used a 12 ounce dose). I am nearing 4,000 km on this OCI, about 2,500 of them since putting MMO in. My model year was the first to introduce VVT-i, but MMO at the dose I used has had no ill effect. I am planning to add my remaining 8 ounces once the temps go below 0 degrees C, and run it until Spring. By then I will have about 8,000 km on the oil and over 6,000 of them since the first MMO dosing.

So in my experience, MMO should not have any impact there. Its also normal that the idle will vary. When cold started, the sensors aren't online until the engine has warmed slightly; meantime the ECU is running a pre-programmed fuel mixture. Once they start sending data the ECU will start to hunt a bit and your RPM may surge, drop, or do both. This is also normal for the Corolla.

Likely you are noticing things that were present before, but are more noticeable now because after adding the MMO you are looking and listening for any changes. The change may be only that the heightened awareness is drawing attention to things not noticed before because you weren't paying attention to it until now.

-Spyder

 

[expat]

It's interesting that you noticed a change 200 miles after a 14oz treatment. I noticed a change at about the same time with my engine, except mine went very smooth, and quite (it's an old Toyota 22R)
I don't think any damage has, or will be done with the MMO, but for peace of mind, you might want to change the oil and filter, and perhaps try the MMO again toward the end of the OCI.

 

[mechtech2]

Of course MMO will thin the oil.
14 ounces is not a lot, however. You should have no problems.
Ticking can be from thin oil, or something that is now clean and looser.

 

[Techniker]

I agree with what was previously said on here. Chances are the noise was there before and now that you have added MMO you are looking for a noise and happened to find one. I also agree with what someone else said previously- you have a Toyota, you could run it for 300,000 miles on vegetable oil.

Louder ticking is usually indicative of more valve play within their guides/seats which is why you could see it become louder with a thinner oil, it doesn't offer as much resistance. Again, 14 oz. is not that much and I would not worry about it. The fact that the vehicle has been neglected and driven under severe conditions justifies your action.

The idle speed increase is due to the additional cold from the weather. Colder engines have to run faster. Next time you drive somewhere and stop, take a look at the tachometer when you put it in park. I'm willing to bet it is at its normal level.

If you really want to take care of your car, clean the throttle body and the idle air control. It's the one problem Toyotas have (next to the dreaded 60,000 mile CV boot) and is particularly prone to the large amount of idling during short travel.

-Techniker

 

[Spyder7]

I would add the PCV valve to that list too. Its cheap and easy to replace. My factory original looked like it been soaked in mud when I removed it. I just put in a $12 replacement and will add it to the normal 2 year maintenance cycle of things to inspect and or replace (i.e., coolant, ATF, etc cycle).

I did an throttle body cleaning on mine shortly after purchase using intake cleaner, and its well worth doing too, as its quick and easy. Also, as part of my newly purchased maintenance check list, replaced the air filter and did a Regane cycle.

After 12,000 km since purchase, the only issue that's arisen is with the serpentine belt tensioner, which I need to remove and inspect to see which one I have; there is a TSB on it and Toyota did several revisions on the original model. I will also look at the belt at the same time and see if there's enough wear to justify replacing it when I do the tensioner. These are both standard wear items, relatively inexpensive, and Toyota designed them to be easy to service.

Actually, overall, the early Corollas like ours are very nice to work on. The engine compartment is well laid out, things are logically placed and uncluttered, and very 'shade tree mechanic' friendly.

The Haynes repair manual is well worth acquiring; the job they did on the one covering our model isn't their best work, but all the important info you need is there and its well the price.

-Spyder

 

[panthermike]

Strange, I have the exact car and it's very quiet with MMO added to the sump.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Strange, I have the exact car and it's very quiet with MMO added to the sump.


Maybe thats the PP? How does your Corolla run with that in engine compared to other oils?

 

[panthermike]

Well, PP is in now. The MMO was with MC5000. I haven't noticed a difference with any oil, all have been quiet.

I've used;

Schaeffer's Full syn and Blend, PP and one run with MC5000 that had MMO, 16oz.

I've put MMO into around 10 cars and none have become louder.

 

[Spyder7]

I added my last 8 ounces of MMO (to the original 12 ounce dose) tonight, and took it for a short spin. No changes noticed. It was quiet before, and except for my Serpentine belt tensioner that needs to replaced and is making noise at certain RPM, its quiet now. There are just under 4,000 km on the original fill of PP, and it will see between 8-10,000 km, most of them MMO dosed, before the oil is changed.

Both TC-W3 and mos2 have had a positive effect on engine noise, too. More variables in play in my case, but from my experience there is nothing to suggest a 14 ounce dose of MMO, in and of itself, should increase engine noise.

That said, depending on your oil and how many miles (and how hard they've been) are on it, its possible your oil may have begun to shear down to something bordering a 20 weight; in which case a 14 ounce dose could thin it just enough that its now a 20 weight oil, and with the car being spec'd for a 30, this could account for the increase in engine noise you are hearing too.

The Corolla, with its timing chain, IS very hard on oil, and in another thread where several Corolla owners discussed this and oil shearing, that was the general consensus reached. I remember getting a hard time for choosing to combine MMO and syn, in a different thread, but those who took issue with it didn't take into account that GP-III oils are more shear resistant and maintain viscosity better throughout their OCI than dino does, and that this particular engine tends to trash oil (and there are many UOAs posted to prove this).

-Spyder

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
do an oil change and use a good filter and 5w30 nothing else
mmo is great stuff i use it but only for about a week and drive very slowly not over 40 on side streets then put the 5w30 back in


I reread this 3 times just to make sure, but I'm still miffed.

How is MMO great stuff if you won't drive over 40 and use it for about a week?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you scared of MMO and/or the effects it may do/cause?

I've used MMO for over 15 years, many (see: countless) times I've used up to 20% of my oil fill for the entire OCI, never changing my driving habits.

 

[demarpaint]

I re-read the thread too bigmike, and thought the same thing. I've been driving since the mid 70's and using MMO in my dads car since I was about 15 years old and started tinkering. You can run MMO for a full OCI. In fact you can hop in your car with MMO in the crankcase and drive cross country. Just don't exceed the suggested amount.

For the faint of heart I suggest adding MMO during the winter months when oil is "thicker" when cold. Or go up a grade, add a pint instead of a qt, or add it for the last 1000 miles of the OCI. For those really afraid, don't use it at all.

Kreen seems to be faster acting and has a good reputation for those who want to clean an engine and fear using MMO. JMO

 

[Spyder7]

I like adding it to syn for the winter OCI when the oil will see more severe service than in summer, and the engine can benefit from both the slight thinning to aid cold starts, and the mild solvency to aid the synthetic in keeping it clean.

Note that it is harder, and more expensive, to attain in Canada, so I prefer to ration it for the one season usage when it can best accomplish multiple purposes. To that end it'll be an every winter OCI additive for me.

-Spyder

 

[panthermike]

Remember as well that even if 14oz(only 11% of your capacity) thinned the oil, the '09 and up Corollas use 20wt and have the same motor.