MMO + DI Engines : User Experiences welcome

[bourne]

The title pretty much says it all. Ive been running MMO in my Acura since the last couple of tanks as a UCL, especially since most of the gas stations around me sell ethanol blend. My question pertains to our Mazda 3 with a Direct Injected engine. Has anyone used MMO in a DI engine, and if so did you notice any benefits/adverse effects ? Is MMO safe to use with DI engines ? Any comments/replies/experiences welcome.... ( just no MMO haters, we know your opinions and are choosing to ignore them, no hard feelings

)

 

[jrtribology]

I honestly don't know I'm very curious about that myself, I know one thing it eliminates or reduces smoke in the exhaust and makes a hot weird smell ...

 

[Danh]

Not sure what the purpose would be. The risk unique to DI engines is deposits on the intake side of the intake valve, but MMO won't touch this area. If you check your owner's manual I expect you'll find a statement saying additives to gas/oil are not recommended or necessary.

Injectors in DI engines are much more precise and operate under much higher pressure than traditional injectors; I don't know what MMO might do to them, but I'd avoid trying to find out.

 

[demarpaint]

I think MMO fed to a DI engine via an Inverse Oiler might be of some benefit. I don't own a DI engine so I have no first hand experience, but I think it would be something worth looking into for you.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Not sure what the purpose would be. The risk unique to DI engines is deposits on the intake side of the intake valve, but MMO won't touch this area. If you check your owner's manual I expect you'll find a statement saying additives to gas/oil are not recommended or necessary.

Injectors in DI engines are much more precise and operate under much higher pressure than traditional injectors; I don't know what MMO might do to them, but I'd avoid trying to find out.


The deposit problem isnt the biggest concern for me. It has been shown that DI engines CAN operate without ridiculous amounts of deposits. Seems a few manufacturers are having more issues with this than some others. I havent heard/read anything from Mazda having this issue yet. Fingers crossed.

I am primarily concerned with the lubricating properties of MMO. As UCL and for keeping the fuel system lubricated against the ethanol content in gasoline. I am also very interested if it has any effect on the injectors since, like you mentioned, they operate at the MUCH higher pressure vs injectors in a port injected engine. Also since its supposed to produce a "cleaner" burn, would this aid unintentionally in lesser deposits ?

 

[jrtribology]

Can you buy unleaded gas from Sunoco racing or VP racing that has no alcohol ?

 

[Falken]

Ok I don't really go for this stuff but just did some research and some very trusted BITOGers love MMO.

My Honda Fit isn't DI I know, but it is a very very small engine and as a UCL I can see MMO helping out MPG.

Also, as noted about ethanol reducing lubricity of an engine, well, Canada is the land of ethanol in gas big time.

Even as a fuel stabilizer with how long a tank of gas lasts me I'll bite.

Does anyone know were you can get cheap MMO in Montreal? Never saw it before now I plan on really looking!!

 

[UG_Passat]

Use Low-SAPS oil to slow the formation of deposits.

I don't know if MMO really does anything. I used it... but can't really tell the difference.

I use Starton as a preventative measure against ethanol's hydroscopic nature though

yes, I have a direct injected turbo motor

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Use Low-SAPS oil to slow the formation of deposits.

I don't know if MMO really does anything. I used it... but can't really tell the difference.

I use Starton as a preventative measure against ethanol's hydroscopic nature though

yes, I have a direct injected turbo motor


Its spec'd for 0w20 , im not sure if there is a Low SAPS category in that weight available.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: jrtribology
Can you buy unleaded gas from Sunoco racing or VP racing that has no alcohol ?

No unfortunately not. The best I can get in my area is Shell. I usually fill up at Speedway since I get a price break on Premium with their gas card. Mazda only gets Shell or BP regular if I can help it.

 

[GMBoy]

MMO was invented in 1923. I'm not sure how something that old has continued to be sold as anything worthwhile today. I'm sure it has it's uses but I have never seen any benefits in it and I can't get past the snake oil feeling I have of it.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
MMO was invented in 1923. I'm not sure how something that old has continued to be sold as anything worthwhile today. I'm sure it has it's uses but I have never seen any benefits in it and I can't get past the snake oil feeling I have of it.



Lol without dwelling into the whole how can something so old be useful argument , whats your opinion on the gas available today lacking the required ingredients to keep your fuel/combustion system in excellent condition ? This is in terms of lubricity and detergency.


My Acura's egr gets ridiculously clogged due to poor design. To the point where I clean my intake manifold yearly. This past year all I have used is speedway gas with one treatment of techron. I can already feel my throttle pedal getting sticky from deposits. I have mmo in one tank so far which I dont think has affected anything. Once I do my yearly cleaning I will use the recommended dose of mmo in each tank of gas throughout the year or as much as I can help it. I am interested in seeing if it helps keep the emissions systems cleaner as well. This was slightly ot but still on MMO I guess.


Anyhoo , thank you for your input. Should be interesting to read the experiences of whoever takes time to post one.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: Danh
Not sure what the purpose would be. The risk unique to DI engines is deposits on the intake side of the intake valve, but MMO won't touch this area. If you check your owner's manual I expect you'll find a statement saying additives to gas/oil are not recommended or necessary.

Injectors in DI engines are much more precise and operate under much higher pressure than traditional injectors; I don't know what MMO might do to them, but I'd avoid trying to find out.


The deposit problem isnt the biggest concern for me. It has been shown that DI engines CAN operate without ridiculous amounts of deposits. Seems a few manufacturers are having more issues with this than some others. I havent heard/read anything from Mazda having this issue yet. Fingers crossed.

I am primarily concerned with the lubricating properties of MMO. As UCL and for keeping the fuel system lubricated against the ethanol content in gasoline. I am also very interested if it has any effect on the injectors since, like you mentioned, they operate at the MUCH higher pressure vs injectors in a port injected engine. Also since its supposed to produce a "cleaner" burn, would this aid unintentionally in lesser deposits ?


Understand that while MMO may have some cleaning properties, it has POOR lubricating properties. When MMO was added to diesel fuel and then run through the industry standard HFRR test it made the lubricity of diesel fuel worse than diesel fuel alone. Why anyone would add it to gas or diesel fuel to help with lubricity is beyond me. I have posted links to these tests before.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: bourne

Lol without dwelling into the whole how can something so old be useful argument , whats your opinion on the gas available today lacking the required ingredients to keep your fuel/combustion system in excellent condition ? This is in terms of lubricity and detergency.


Says who? I've been buying the cheapest [censored] gas I can buy since I started driving in 1992. Put probably 700k on various cars over the years and never an issue I can attribute to gasoline. Last few cars have all been close to or over 100k without any injector related issues.

Even the wife's Escape at 122k still idles and drives very well. Idle only gets choppy when the IAC needs cleaning and lubing. But that is a common Ford issue. 20 minutes with carb cleaner and some 5w-20 and you're good to go.

So I'd say there is no issues with today's gas in a well designed engine.

 

[bourne]

LOL my intake manifold begs to differ.

Keep it coming guys. Did not know MMO reduces the lubricity of diesel Donald. Is there a different additive you use/prefer ?

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: bourne
LOL my intake manifold begs to differ.


Perhaps it's not a well designed engine?

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: bourne

Lol without dwelling into the whole how can something so old be useful argument , whats your opinion on the gas available today lacking the required ingredients to keep your fuel/combustion system in excellent condition ? This is in terms of lubricity and detergency.


Says who? I've been buying the cheapest [censored] gas I can buy since I started driving in 1992. Put probably 700k on various cars over the years and never an issue I can attribute to gasoline. Last few cars have all been close to or over 100k without any injector related issues.

Even the wife's Escape at 122k still idles and drives very well. Idle only gets choppy when the IAC needs cleaning and lubing. But that is a common Ford issue. 20 minutes with carb cleaner and some 5w-20 and you're good to go.

So I'd say there is no issues with today's gas in a well designed engine.

Tell that to the folks who get a check engine light after a bad tank of gas.

 

[oldhp]

I use in my 69 Charger all the time for one reason. The ethanol gas evaporates very quickly in a carb. Without the MMO I was getting white crusty deposits inside of the Edelbrock carb. I had to put a new accelerator pump cup every year and clean it out.
WITH MMO I don't have to do anything. The ethanol gas still evaporates but now I get a nice oily film on inside of carb and haven't to replace accelerator pump cup for last 4'ish years.
I don't see any reason why MMO couldn't be used in todays fuel injection systems.

 

[badtlc]

I have tried a couple fuel additives in my DI Mazda3 Skyactiv. Using my commute to work as the test, I would reset my avg MPG caclulator every day to get an avg MPG round trip per day. For each week I did this, i threw out the high and low average due to winds/weather/whatever. These are the numbers I got with some additives:

MMO: Average for the 3 days that I counted was 39.5 MPGs.
Regane complete (the one that does two tanks): 41.8 MPGs.
Straight gas: 40.8 MPGs.

I use premium 91 octane from Phillips66 in my car. This could affect the results compared to what other people would run.


These numbers don't have a whole lot of data to back them, just about one week per additive test so far. I should get a better grasp for it as time goes on.

When I used MMO in my mazda6 2.3L, I saw no decrease in MPGs but i ran 87 octane. Not sure if the gas or DI could be the difference at this point. Time will tell.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: bourne
LOL my intake manifold begs to differ.

Keep it coming guys. Did not know MMO reduces the lubricity of diesel Donald. Is there a different additive you use/prefer ?


I buy Walmart TC3 oil by the gallon and use 1 oz per gallon of diesel. It did very well on the HFRR tests and is reasonable in cost. But not all diesel injector pumps care. I have a VP44 in the Cummins and it cares and a new one is $2500.

My point was MMO reduces lubricity in diesel and assume it will do the same in gas. But unsure one should use TC3 oil in gas for lubricity given the cat.