MMO - again-

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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the UOA reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The UOA reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.


Not necessarily. UOA's are not an accurate tool for determining engine wear.

I'm more curious as to whether a test COULD be setup that would be able to show us the effects of products like Seafoam, MMO....etc when added to engine oil.
smile.gif




How come tests that show MMO is good are invalid, but ONE that says otherwise [and a different application!] is OK?
Guess what was recommended and used to lube our old Judsen supercharger?
MMO.
Umpteen jillion people [give or take 2-3] have used MMO with success in various applications. Their website give info and links. These can't be lightly discounted, at this point


I think the original intent of this thread was an attack against MMO. The tip-off is in the OP's sig line.
wink.gif


OVERK1LL put a nice spin on it and some good dialogue resulted. JMO

I do agree with you, MMO has been around a very long time and if it was garbage or littering the road with trashed vehicles we'd know by now.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds cool. I don't know how easy it would be to do though. You'd have to control temperature, oil flow and filter the oil, to get accurate results, at least for how oil would work in an engine. IMO that's what would probably be up to attack if one oil or additive shined over another, especially if its a BITOG darling. The 4 Ball Test comes to mind here. LOL

You probably could do some testing to see what oil is best for you. I'd like to see the thick vs. thin debate put to rest. And if a $12/qt boutique oil is really better than a $7/qt off the shelf oil at reducing engine wear. Oh yea and Dino vs. Synthetic.

You got your work cut out for you buddy! lol


No filter, I think that would skew the results. Just a clean source of oil poured over the friction surface through a fixed orifice that collects in a container that is then sent to be analyzed. It would be a "single pass" method using a set quantity of lubricant. Oil would be heated to a set temperature before the test is run.


Oh OK. How long would the test take?


I guess that would depend on the size of the orifice and the amount of lubricant that is used.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the UOA reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The UOA reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.


Not necessarily. UOA's are not an accurate tool for determining engine wear.

I'm more curious as to whether a test COULD be setup that would be able to show us the effects of products like Seafoam, MMO....etc when added to engine oil.
smile.gif




How come tests that show MMO is good are invalid, but ONE that says otherwise [and a different application!] is OK?
Guess what was recommended and used to lube our old Judsen supercharger?
MMO.
Umpteen jillion people [give or take 2-3] have used MMO with success in various applications. Their website give info and links. These can't be lightly discounted, at this point


I think the original intent of this thread was an attack against MMO. The tip-off is in the OP's sig line.
wink.gif


OVERK1LL put a nice spin on it and some good dialogue resulted. JMO

I do agree with you, MMO has been around a very long time and if it was garbage or littering the road with trashed vehicles we'd know by now.


Exactly
thumbsup2.gif


My intent (and tangent from the OP's post) was not an attack on the product, but rather an attempt to brainstorm up some sort of testing method we could use to see what these additives DO in solution in terms of particle count data. Which could then be extrapolated to provide somewhat meaningful data about their effects on wear.
 
I like the idea of somebody actually doing some kind of tests that might indicate the quality or lack of quality of various motor oils, oil supplements, etc. I can still remember all of the cool testing that Bob did on various products, such as Lucas. As long as the tester can be trusted we might get some results we can actually measure and maybe a real indication of the quality of a product rather than just what people say.
 
Here are the details of the HFRR test. As you can see its not a test of how well and engine runs, etc but how well the diesel fuel lubricates (what size scar is left) the ball bearing. And MMO caused this test to be worse, a larger scar. I do feel its relevant and can be used as one piece of evidence that MMO reduces the lubrication properties of engine oil.

How Diesel Fuel Is Evaluated For Lubricating Ability:
Diesel fuel and other fluids are tested for lubricating ability using a device
called a “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR. The HFRR is currently
the Internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for
lubricating ability. It uses a ball bearing that reciprocates or moves back and
forth on a metal surface at a very high frequency for a duration of 90
minutes. The machine does this while the ball bearing and metal surface are
immersed in the test fluid (in this case, treated diesel fuel). At the end of the
test the ball bearing is examined under a microscope and the “wear scar” on
the ball bearing is measured in microns. The larger the wear scar, the poorer
the lubricating ability of the fluid. The independent lab runs every sample
twice and averages the size of the wear scar.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Maybe the above test could be run with virgin engine oil with and without MMO? As the writeup says, its not strictly for diesel fuel.


But how would be get access to such a machine?
 
Originally Posted By: Donald


I will change my signature if it comes out positive for MMO.


LOL Maybe we can test A-Rx too while we're at it. They claim wear reduction too.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Donald


I will change my signature if it comes out positive for MMO.


LOL Maybe we can test A-Rx too while we're at it. They claim wear reduction too.


Not a bad idea.
 
This may be the wrong place to ask this but can I just put a small amount of MMO in my oil without removing any oil? I have a 2004 Tacoma V6 approaching 100k miles. I don't think there is any problems with the truck but this product sounds like it may be good just for a maintenance.

I am about 500 miles from my next oil change and was considering just pouring a pint of MMO, or whatever amount recommended,in with the oil before this next oil change.

Just trying to keep my truck healthy so I will still be driving it another 10 years hopefully.

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: mc4nam
This may be the wrong place to ask this but can I just put a small amount of MMO in my oil without removing any oil? I have a 2004 Tacoma V6 approaching 100k miles. I don't think there is any problems with the truck but this product sounds like it may be good just for a maintenance.

I am about 500 miles from my next oil change and was considering just pouring a pint of MMO, or whatever amount recommended,in with the oil before this next oil change.

Just trying to keep my truck healthy so I will still be driving it another 10 years hopefully.

Thanks


You can go over by a pint in a 5 qt or larger sump w/o issue. But if you can avoid overfilling that's always best. What some people do is remove the filter drain it, and reinstall it if they're afraid of overfilling. Just be sure if you remove the filter that it doesn't leak when you put it back on.
 
I'm not so sure about the results of that diesel fuel additive test...

It doesn't make sense to me that MMO could reduce the lubricity of diesel fuel...

It is recommended to do just the opposite! ... and is what many people use it to do in gas engines - me included - due to the ethanol...

According to their website, MMO used at 4 oz per 10 gallons will raise the sulphur in diesel fuel 1.6 ppm over the 15 ppm limit and that is why it cannot be recommended for 07 and later engines...but according to Rich Kelly on their forums, it is highly recommended for use in pre 07 diesel engines fuel to replace the lubricity of ULSD and even to use 6 oz per 10 gallons of ULSD fuel instead of the normal 4 oz - so, either MMO or those who did that other test are blowing smoke...I tend to believe MMO does add some lubricity to diesel fuel...how could adding a fuel lubricant reduce lubricity?? ... and if it did, I'd tend to think that MMO would not recommend it for such...

I've searched a great deal and that diesel fuel additive test is the only place I've found that said something negative about adding MMO to diesel fuel ... Does anyone know of anything anywhere else?
 
to:demarpaint i didnt say i didnt like it i just said i forgot reading it. maybe i didnt say what i mean at one point.
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
I'm not so sure about the results of that diesel fuel additive test...

It doesn't make sense to me that MMO could reduce the lubricity of diesel fuel...

It is recommended to do just the opposite! ... and is what many people use it to do in gas engines - me included - due to the ethanol...

According to their website, MMO used at 4 oz per 10 gallons will raise the sulphur in diesel fuel 1.6 ppm over the 15 ppm limit and that is why it cannot be recommended for 07 and later engines...but according to Rich Kelly on their forums, it is highly recommended for use in pre 07 diesel engines fuel to replace the lubricity of ULSD and even to use 6 oz per 10 gallons of ULSD fuel instead of the normal 4 oz - so, either MMO or those who did that other test are blowing smoke...I tend to believe MMO does add some lubricity to diesel fuel...how could adding a fuel lubricant reduce lubricity?? ... and if it did, I'd tend to think that MMO would not recommend it for such...

I've searched a great deal and that diesel fuel additive test is the only place I've found that said something negative about adding MMO to diesel fuel ... Does anyone know of anything anywhere else?




It seems most people who have an injector pump that needs the lubricity just get 2 cycle oil at Walmart and go with 1 oz per gallon of diesel. The oil is about 10 cents per oz. if you buy a gallon.

The test about diesel fuel was independent and I'd believe it over something on the MMO website.
 
Originally Posted By: morris
to:demarpaint i didnt say i didnt like it i just said i forgot reading it. maybe i didnt say what i mean at one point.


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