MMO - again-

[Donald]

WHile this was used a diesel fuel additive, in this case it was used to improve the lubricity of diesel causing less wear on the injector. Many people with older diesel engines add something to the ULSD fuel to provide more lubrication to the pump. Two cycle oil is common as are some other additives and MMO.

So if it does this in a diesel fuel test, what is it doing in your engine when added to the oil?

The lower the HFRR the better. (MMO INCREASED the HFRR, not lowered it as you want.)

Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage
2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Donald


So if it does this in a diesel fuel test, what is it doing in your engine when added to the oil?



Who uses diesel fuel as engine oil? That's like saying what happens if I add A-Rx to my gas?

When MMO is added to engine oil at the proper dose it cleans engines. Lots of members here and around the world have already proven that.

They also clearly state not to use it in diesel fuel in 2007 and newer engines. MMO does not comply with federal ultra low sulfur content requirements for use in model 2007 and newer diesel motor vehicles.

This seems like another attempt at bashing MMO doesn't it?

 

[Donald]

My point was if it reduces the lubrication properties of diesel fuel, wouldn't it do the same to engine oil?

Not talking about using diesel fuel as engine oil or whether MMO complies with federal standards for ULSD.

 

[demarpaint]

Diesel fuel and engine oil are two totally different animals, used for two different purposes. Check out some of the used oil analysis reports that had MMO added to the oil. That might tell what the addition of MMO did to the oil, and the impact it had on the engine.

Originally Posted By: Donald


Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage
2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank


You did mention ULSD.

 

[morris]

soooooo. where is the scientific tests? if i have seen that here, i have forgot it, i bet i did forget it.

 

[Donald]

The test for HFRR with respect to diesel fuel is a standard test. This particular test was done in an independent lab in a blind study. They tested several products typically added to diesel fuel. Its a very repeatable test with consistent results.


I am not sure what part of a used oil analysis one would look at to determine how the MMO helped. Adding MMO to your oil, running it for a few thousand miles, and doing a used oil analysis is not a standard test and is not repeatable. Way too many variables.

Its certainly possible that MMO provides some cleaning properties to oil, but it would appear to the detriment of the lubrication properties of oil.

 

[demarpaint]

used oil analysis reports are what we have here to see what is going on in oil. The used oil analysis reports with MMO added to the oil have been good.

This question is about adding MMO to diesel fuel, and there was one test done by one lab IIRC. What does adding MMO to oil have to do with adding it to diesel fuel? One can make an ASSUMPTION and that's about it.

Morris is you'd like scientific testing why not fund it? used oil analysis is all the science we have here at the moment.


Originally Posted By: Donald

Its certainly possible that MMO provides some cleaning properties to oil, but it would appear to the detriment of the lubrication properties of oil.


If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the used oil analysis reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The used oil analysis reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the used oil analysis reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The used oil analysis reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.


Not necessarily. used oil analysis are not an accurate tool for determining engine wear.

I'm more curious as to whether a test COULD be setup that would be able to show us the effects of products like Seafoam, MMO....etc when added to engine oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the used oil analysis reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The used oil analysis reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.


Not necessarily. used oil analysis are not an accurate tool for determining engine wear.

I'm more curious as to whether a test COULD be setup that would be able to show us the effects of products like Seafoam, MMO....etc when added to engine oil.

I'm all for the test you mentioned, but until then all we have is used oil analysis reports, tear downs, and testimony. Even though I'm not much of a fan of used oil analysis reports if they were bad with the use of MMO, the MMO haters would be all over them wouldn't they?

 

[OVERKILL]

Well of course they would, LOL!

So, what do you think regarding coming up with said test?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


So, what do you think regarding coming up with said test?


Unbiased testing is a good thing.

Any idea how, or who would do it, and how it would be funded? I think those are the stumbling blocks, and why testimony, and butt conventional is what we end up reverting back to.

 

[OVERKILL]

What about a machine that rotates a piece of metal against another piece of metal. Sort of like a lobe/bucket setup and it is bathed in a specific quantity of heated oil. This test runs for a given amount of time and then the lube is analyzed with a particle count and the results noted.

I don't think any of us have the equipment necessary to do wear measurements, so I'm thinking some sort of fixed piece of equipment and then using particle count data is about the closest we can get to affordable.....?

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds like it would work, it could be used to test one oil against another, or one grade against another. It might even put the thick vs. thin debate to rest.

Now the flaw in all of this. It would only be as honest as the person doing the test. Someone with an agenda could easily skew the results, sad but true. Cost is a factor too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds like it would work, it could be used to test one oil against another, or one grade against another. It might even put the thick vs. thin debate to rest.

Now the flaw in all of this. It would only be as honest as the person doing the test. Someone with an agenda could easily skew the results, sad but true. Cost is a factor too.


Very good point.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds like it would work, it could be used to test one oil against another, or one grade against another. It might even put the thick vs. thin debate to rest.

Now the flaw in all of this. It would only be as honest as the person doing the test. Someone with an agenda could easily skew the results, sad but true. Cost is a factor too.


Very good point.


Sad but true unfortunately. It might also be expensive to actually setup and control for a DIY guy with a limited budget and limited time.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds like it would work, it could be used to test one oil against another, or one grade against another. It might even put the thick vs. thin debate to rest.

Now the flaw in all of this. It would only be as honest as the person doing the test. Someone with an agenda could easily skew the results, sad but true. Cost is a factor too.


Very good point.


Sad but true unfortunately. It might also be expensive to actually setup and control for a DIY guy with a limited budget and limited time.


Yes, I was thinking a miniature lathe as part of the test rig to provide the rotation. The rest of it would have to be fab'd in some sort of self-contained jig to house (and heat) the lubricant. So sort of like a small parts washer setup operating inside the extents of the lathe.

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds cool. I don't know how easy it would be to do though. You'd have to control temperature, oil flow and filter the oil, to get accurate results, at least for how oil would work in an engine. IMO that's what would probably be up to attack if one oil or additive shined over another, especially if its a BITOG darling. The 4 Ball Test comes to mind here. LOL

You probably could do some testing to see what oil is best for you. I'd like to see the thick vs. thin debate put to rest. And if a $12/qt boutique oil is really better than a $7/qt off the shelf oil at reducing engine wear. Oh yea and Dino vs. Synthetic.

You got your work cut out for you buddy! lol

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds cool. I don't know how easy it would be to do though. You'd have to control temperature, oil flow and filter the oil, to get accurate results, at least for how oil would work in an engine. IMO that's what would probably be up to attack if one oil or additive shined over another, especially if its a BITOG darling. The 4 Ball Test comes to mind here. LOL

You probably could do some testing to see what oil is best for you. I'd like to see the thick vs. thin debate put to rest. And if a $12/qt boutique oil is really better than a $7/qt off the shelf oil at reducing engine wear. Oh yea and Dino vs. Synthetic.

You got your work cut out for you buddy! lol


No filter, I think that would skew the results. Just a clean source of oil poured over the friction surface through a fixed orifice that collects in a container that is then sent to be analyzed. It would be a "single pass" method using a set quantity of lubricant. Oil would be heated to a set temperature before the test is run.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sounds cool. I don't know how easy it would be to do though. You'd have to control temperature, oil flow and filter the oil, to get accurate results, at least for how oil would work in an engine. IMO that's what would probably be up to attack if one oil or additive shined over another, especially if its a BITOG darling. The 4 Ball Test comes to mind here. LOL

You probably could do some testing to see what oil is best for you. I'd like to see the thick vs. thin debate put to rest. And if a $12/qt boutique oil is really better than a $7/qt off the shelf oil at reducing engine wear. Oh yea and Dino vs. Synthetic.

You got your work cut out for you buddy! lol


No filter, I think that would skew the results. Just a clean source of oil poured over the friction surface through a fixed orifice that collects in a container that is then sent to be analyzed. It would be a "single pass" method using a set quantity of lubricant. Oil would be heated to a set temperature before the test is run.


Oh OK. How long would the test take?

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

If it was detrimental to the oil wouldn't the used oil analysis reports show that? You're making an assumption about a product used in diesel fuel, vs. engine oil. Two totally different things, aren't they? All I see is your assumption at the moment. The used oil analysis reports have proven you wrong RE: the use of MMO in the oil.


Not necessarily. used oil analysis are not an accurate tool for determining engine wear.

I'm more curious as to whether a test COULD be setup that would be able to show us the effects of products like Seafoam, MMO....etc when added to engine oil.

How come tests that show MMO is good are invalid, but ONE that says otherwise [and a different application!] is OK?
Guess what was recommended and used to lube our old Judsen supercharger?
MMO.
Umpteen jillion people [give or take 2-3] have used MMO with success in various applications. Their website give info and links. These can't be lightly discounted, at this point