Mixing Dino with Synthetic?

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Don't they have the Mobil Clean 7500 that is already a blend?

Almost alwasy cheaper (and better) to blend your own synthetic blend.



Based on what? A spit of PAO and additives is all the difference that there is between synthetic and conventional. The additives are specifc to the basestock, mixing it all up with other additives and bases is guaranteed "better"?

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Based on what? A spit of PAO and additives is all the difference that there is between synthetic and conventional. The additives are specifc to the basestock, mixing it all up with other additives and bases is guaranteed "better"?
Synthetic blends "typically" have relatively little (about 20%) Base III/IV stock, but are priced as though they have about 50% or more.

 

[demarpaint]

I never used a synthetic blend, but from reading here, I would make my own. EG: a 50/50 mix of PP and YB would probably be a better blend than anything I would be able to buy. Or a 75% conventional 25% synthetic, etc. JMO

 

[SilverC6]

Wouldn't you just be wasting the synthetic by adding it to the dino?

A synthetic oil provides greater friction reduction and improved heat resistance due to its molecular uniformity.

When you introduce the dino, don't you just negate that?

I always thought factory synthetic blends were just marketing hype.

They offer only a slight improvement in characteristics at 90% of a full synthetic's cost.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Wouldn't you just be wasting the synthetic by adding it to the dino?

A synthetic oil provides greater friction reduction and improved heat resistance due to its molecular uniformity.

When you introduce the dino, don't you just negate that?

I always thought factory synthetic blends were just marketing hype.

They offer only a slight improvement in characteristics at 90% of a full synthetic's cost.


Any time dino is mixed with synthetic the synthetic quailty is lowered. OTOH anytime synthetic is added to dino the dino quality would be better. Making your own blend would offer a better mix than a factory synthetic blend. At this point I run either synthetic and conventional, and might make my own blend for the winter this year. JMO

 

[Big Jim]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Wouldn't you just be wasting the synthetic by adding it to the dino?

A synthetic oil provides greater friction reduction and improved heat resistance due to its molecular uniformity.

When you introduce the dino, don't you just negate that?

I always thought factory synthetic blends were just marketing hype.

They offer only a slight improvement in characteristics at 90% of a full synthetic's cost.


That's all just an old wives tale. No better friction reduction. The heat resistance is only at very elevated temperatures.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Based on what? A spit of PAO and additives is all the difference that there is between synthetic and conventional. The additives are specifc to the basestock, mixing it all up with other additives and bases is guaranteed "better"?
Synthetic blends "typically" have relatively little (about 20%) Base III/IV stock, but are priced as though they have about 50% or more.



PAO content has nothing to do with the relative price. That's like saying G-III oils should be free. What formula are you applying?

Uhh, nevermind.

 

[disturban]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Well, if you want to keep Mo-bills in your pocket, you can do it by spending less on conventional oil changes, or spend more on full synthetic and change it less often.
Longer oil changes often are less expensive with full synthetic.
Of course, sales and buying at appropriate times is a huge key.

Mixing? It's fine -no problems and may even have some benefit.
But I would simply use the conventional alone.
You see, you have no idea how long the extra qt. of synthetic will make the oil last.
The main reason I dont want to run full synthetic would be cost. It's all good when you can get it on sale but what about the times when you cant? Another reason is I dont want to use a different oil every change...I am the type of person who finds something that works and I stick to the program. I have a 1988 Suburban with 287,000 miles that dont burn a drop of oil after 5,000 miles and all I have used was the cheap mobil oil (Now called Clean 5,000) I dont drive that much but our new truck the wife drives about 2,500 miles a month so if I find a oil change program for 7,500 miles I would just have to change every 3 months vs two. The Mobil clean 7,500 is over twice the price of Clean 5,000 so thats why I was thinking about making my own blend.


I am going to do a used oil analysis after a 5,000 mile conventional only change, then another after a 5,000 mile blend, then another after a 7,500 mile blend...this will cost me some money but it will give me the answers I am looking for and be worth it in the long run because she needs this truck to last for over 200,000 miles.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
PAO content has nothing to do with the relative price. That's like saying G-III oils should be free. What formula are you applying?

Uhh, nevermind.

What are you talking about? I said Group III/IV when referencing to synthetic oils. What do you mean that Group III should be free? I never said or implied any such thing.

The fact is that it is usually cheaper to make your own synthetic blend using one quart of synthetic (Group III or Group IV or some combination of the two) and the rest conventional. Or one can use 50-50 conventional/synthetic and it will cost you the same as most synthetic blends, but will have a much higher percentage of synthetic than an off-the-shelf synthetic blend.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: disturban
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Well, if you want to keep Mo-bills in your pocket, you can do it by spending less on conventional oil changes, or spend more on full synthetic and change it less often.
Longer oil changes often are less expensive with full synthetic.
Of course, sales and buying at appropriate times is a huge key.

Mixing? It's fine -no problems and may even have some benefit.
But I would simply use the conventional alone.
You see, you have no idea how long the extra qt. of synthetic will make the oil last.
The main reason I dont want to run full synthetic would be cost. It's all good when you can get it on sale but what about the times when you cant? Another reason is I dont want to use a different oil every change...I am the type of person who finds something that works and I stick to the program. I have a 1988 Suburban with 287,000 miles that dont burn a drop of oil after 5,000 miles and all I have used was the cheap mobil oil (Now called Clean 5,000) I dont drive that much but our new truck the wife drives about 2,500 miles a month so if I find a oil change program for 7,500 miles I would just have to change every 3 months vs two. The Mobil clean 7,500 is over twice the price of Clean 5,000 so thats why I was thinking about making my own blend.


I am going to do a used oil analysis after a 5,000 mile conventional only change, then another after a 5,000 mile blend, then another after a 7,500 mile blend...this will cost me some money but it will give me the answers I am looking for and be worth it in the long run because she needs this truck to last for over 200,000 miles.


I see no problem with what you want to do. My only feeling is that I'm not sure how much better your blend will be with only 1 qt of synthetic oil. My guess is it will be better than a factory blend that contains 10% synthetic oil as many speculate.

If you plan on doing used oil analysis as you mention the preferred method is after the second run of an oil, or blend in your case so you get more accurate results.

In short, go for it! Keep us posted on your results.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I'm not the one saying how much of whatever oil costs how much. I'm asking for YOUR numbers, disregarding the incompatible additive packs.

Something like this:
5q of $2 conventional oil containing x% of G-II basestock mixed with 1q of $6 synthetic oil containing y% of G-III basesstock > $3 semisynthetic oil that has 10% or so "syntheticeric" content...

Show your work.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Wouldn't you just be wasting the synthetic by adding it to the dino?

A synthetic oil provides greater friction reduction and improved heat resistance due to its molecular uniformity.

When you introduce the dino, don't you just negate that?

I always thought factory synthetic blends were just marketing hype.

They offer only a slight improvement in characteristics at 90% of a full synthetic's cost.


That's all just an old wives tale. No better friction reduction. The heat resistance is only at very elevated temperatures.


Redline seems to think that the molecular uniformity of their oils is a big deal.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?subCategoryID=1&synthFlash=1&categoryID=1

Maybe you should let them know they are putting out old wives' tales.

 

[StevieC]

Remember marketing is for Joe-Consumer not BITOG folk... They probably attract lots of people with that nonsense, just like Pennzoil and their "Adaptive Molecules"

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Remember marketing is for Joe-Consumer not BITOG folk... They probably attract lots of people with that nonsense, just like Pennzoil and their "Adaptive Molecules"

Maybe that explains why I'm such a Pennzoil fanatic!!!!

It must be the magic beans!!!!

 

[StevieC]

I have the "Adaptive Molecules" washing my car right now... I tell you, they are very hard working. I think I'm gonna get Johhny to let his old colleagues know!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I'm not the one saying how much of whatever oil costs how much. I'm asking for YOUR numbers, disregarding the incompatible additive packs.

Something like this:
5q of $2 conventional oil containing x% of G-II basestock mixed with 1q of $6 synthetic oil containing y% of G-III basesstock > $3 semisynthetic oil that has 10% or so "syntheticeric" content...

Show your work.


First I said this:

Any time conventional is mixed with synthetic the synthetic quailty is lowered. OTOH anytime synthetic is added to conventional the conventional quality would be better. Making your own blend would offer a better mix than a factory synthetic blend. At this point I run either synthetic or conventional, and might make my own blend for the winter this year. JMO

PLEASE NOTE JMO and others in the thread have said similar things.
----------------------------------------------------------
Next I said this: I never used a synthetic blend, but from reading here, I would make my own. EG: a 50/50 mix of PP and YB would probably be a better blend than anything I would be able to buy. Or a 75% conventional 25% synthetic, etc. JMO

AGAIN JMO- But I did chat with the People at Pennzoil and they said mixing their products is not a problem, but of coarse would rather see a person use PP. No issues with compatability with Pennzoil. I am also willing to bet a 50/50 mix would yeild a product better than YB.
---------------------------------------------------------------
And then finally said this:

I see no problem with what you want to do. My only feeling is that I'm not sure how much better your blend will be with only 1 qt of synthetic oil. My guess is it will be better than a factory blend that contains 10% synthetic oil as many speculate.

If you plan on doing used oil analysis as you mention the preferred method is after the second run of an oil, or blend in your case so you get more accurate results.

In short, go for it! Keep us posted on your results.
-------------------------------------------------------
Sorry no numbers, but there are some used oil analysis that have show nice results mixing, and there are plenty of BITOG members doing it.

 

[StevieC]

AJ,

I don't know why you are picking on Demarpaint's posts... I think that he was clear in stating his "Opinions" and "Thoughts" and not sugguesting the information in any other way. He has a good point about making your own blends. Scoobie does it too and has had some good results.

IMO: Too often oil companies market a syn-blend which is primarily made up of sometimes 75% dino and 25% synthetic fluids just so they can jack up the price and boast about superior performance when it might be cheaper and offer better protection to just buy some of their "fully synthetic" line and some of their Dino line and mix it yourself for what you consider is the best results. (Checking with the company to ensure compatability of course)

You could base the "effectiveness" base on real world engine performance increase, noise it might no longer cause in the winter on cold startup and used oil analysis TAN/TBN and wear metals.

Only a handful of us here (not me) are engineers with specializations in fluid dynamics or Tribiologists and can truly make comment on this procedure, but then again no 2 engines or operating conditions are the same so who knows who is really right at the end of the day. It truly is all speculation and up to each person to make his/her own decision based on what they feel is best for their application.

I was sorta scratching my head at the dialogue you were having with him and just had to comment because he was in no way saying his way was the "best way" or that it was "tried/true", just his take on things as we all post here...

Steve

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I think you would be better off draining a qt at 5000 miles and topping off with another qt of M C5000. Almost guarantee you'll get BETTER UOA and have more reserve alk. and fresh AW to take you to 7500. I see little to no benefit in mixing in a quart of "synthetic".

 

[demarpaint]

Thanks Stevie, I try to state when it's an opinion, (JMO). Anyway, I've read blends can be as little as 10%, your 25% figure could be more accurate.

Oils like Pennzoil are compatible, I'm pretty sure other brands can be mixed as well. In my fleet of 3 I run synthetic in two, conventional in 1. I plan on trying a home-brewed blend in the Aerostar which runs on the conventional oil. I think it will help in the winter a little. When you see deals for some of these discontinued oils for under $2/qt and there are only a few qts left in the store, they make for one fine oil to use in the blend.

JMO

 

[StevieC]

10% wow? I hadn't seen that yet... Thanks

That just makes it more of a rip-off in my mind if they are "charging large" for a syn-blend, meanwhile it's not really that much different from a Dino.