Mid 2000's Avalin vs ES330

[Lolvoguy]

Which would you choose and why?

Looking for something comfier and quieter within the next 5-6 months to replace the Focus. I'm tired of renting cars whenever we want to go out of town due to the NVH of this car. I've seriously considered filling the doors, floor and roof with sound deadening, but I'm not sure if that'll actually help. Currently I've resorted to using ear plugs on the drive to work, as I have sensitive hearing (yes, there's nothing wrong with the car, exhaust is completely intact and everything is OEM).

I'v narrowed my choices to these two cars since they both have excellent reliability and have many features I like (heated AND cooled seats, as well as power adjustments for both!)

The only feature I need that I'm not sure if offered, is folding rear seats. I know the ES330 has it, not sure about the Avalon

Anyone have experience with either of these cars? anything to look out for?

thanks in advance

 

[AccordK24]

The early and mid-2000s ES-series were based on the Camry, while the Avalon was a separate platform. If you want a larger car with more room inside, then the Avalon would be the way to go. In terms of NVH and interior finish quality, the ES330 should have an advantage over the avalon. I haven't been in an ES330, but I have been in an ES350 and it was ridiculously quiet inside. Rolling down the window felt like you suddenly entered a rock concert because of how good the car was at isolating outside noise.

 

[jacky]

i wish i could hear as good as you can, i wear 2 hearing aids and im nearly deaf

 

[dareo]

2005+ Avalon for the new 3.5 V6 over the old 3.3L. You can do a lot with some sound deadending material too. Buy the new car AND sound deaden it and really enjoy a quiet ride.

Lexus ES350 also has the nice 3.5L but they often cost a lot more than an Avalon.

*edit* If it were me, i'd want a Lexus LS430 plus extra sound deadening for the ultimate in quiet luxury.

 

[JJ717]

If you need folding rear seats, the ES330 is not for you. Unfortunately, I believe the Avalon shares the same rear seat (which has a small passthrough for skis or golf clubs, but doesn't fold.)

We've owned a 2005 ES330 since September 2014, which replaced a '98 Camry LE. The sound dampening is still breathtaking, especially in combination with the quiet engine. At idle, I can hear the car behind or beside me more than I can hear my own. It does growl a little when you stomp the loud pedal, but I'm fine with that.

You may want to look for a Camry XLE of the same vintage - the ES330 shares the frame and engine, but the Camry's rear seats do fold. I don't know if they offered the ventilated front seats, but they do offer heated leather.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

My dad had a 2005 Avalon. Outside of the high pressure oil line rupturing (he didn't kill anything and Toyota fixed it for free) it was solid for the 9 years he owned it. The stupid positive battery terminal clamp was a 3-piece! Imagine my horror trying to clean that off when it had corrosion on it.....

 

[hypervish]

As another poster said the rear seats do not fold in the ES330.

However, the 4th generation ES is one of the best built ES ever produced. The 5th generation had noticeable cost cutting by Lexus. But, the 4th gen is a mini-LS. It's incredibly quiet and smooth.

I'd buy another 4ES in a heartbeat, love it!

The 4ES does have lag due to DBW, so make sure you can live with it. There were multiple TSB's to address it, but some still complain.

 

[AccordK24]

Originally Posted By: JJ717
If you need folding rear seats, the ES330 is not for you. Unfortunately, I believe the Avalon shares the same rear seat (which has a small passthrough for skis or golf clubs, but doesn't fold.)

We've owned a 2005 ES330 since September 2014, which replaced a '98 Camry LE. The sound dampening is still breathtaking, especially in combination with the quiet engine. At idle, I can hear the car behind or beside me more than I can hear my own. It does growl a little when you stomp the loud pedal, but I'm fine with that.

You may want to look for a Camry XLE of the same vintage - the ES330 shares the frame and engine, but the Camry's rear seats do fold. I don't know if they offered the ventilated front seats, but they do offer heated leather.


One significant difference between a Lexus ES and the Camry that it's based on is the ES has quite a bit more sound deadening. The ES will be noticeably quieter than a loaded Camry XLE.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I'd go for the Lexus, personally.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Thanks for the replies guys

Since I already own the Focus and dont' owe any money on it, I think I might try the sound deadening option. It's far cheaper than another car, and I'd like to see what kind of results I can get from filling this little buzz trap with it. I think I'm going to start with the wheel wells with some rubberized rocker underguard.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rubberized-rockerguard-undercoating-0477935p.html#.VR5AXWfn-po

Then later this spring/summer I'll open up the doors and remove the carpet and install some of this stuff. Seems to get good reviews and is butyl based so it won't "gas out" fumes into the car. Sadly it's only in the Home Depot in the US so I'll have to wait till I make my next trip down south.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/USEAL-USA-Ban...72AF6/202086180

If none of this works, then it's off to find a Lexus!

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
As another poster said the rear seats do not fold in the ES330.

However, the 4th generation ES is one of the best built ES ever produced. The 5th generation had noticeable cost cutting by Lexus. But, the 4th gen is a mini-LS. It's incredibly quiet and smooth.

I'd buy another 4ES in a heartbeat, love it!

The 4ES does have lag due to DBW, so make sure you can live with it. There were multiple TSB's to address it, but some still complain.


If the DBW lag is anything like the gen 5 Camry of that era, it's truly awful (the 4cyl has almost a second of lag, the V6 is about a 1/2 second). Takes a lot of getting used to and makes smooth takeoffs kinda tough at first (you start pressing, nothing happens, press a little more and the car jumps off the line).

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: hypervish
As another poster said the rear seats do not fold in the ES330.

However, the 4th generation ES is one of the best built ES ever produced. The 5th generation had noticeable cost cutting by Lexus. But, the 4th gen is a mini-LS. It's incredibly quiet and smooth.

I'd buy another 4ES in a heartbeat, love it!

The 4ES does have lag due to DBW, so make sure you can live with it. There were multiple TSB's to address it, but some still complain.


If the DBW lag is anything like the gen 5 Camry of that era, it's truly awful (the 4cyl has almost a second of lag, the V6 is about a 1/2 second). Takes a lot of getting used to and makes smooth takeoffs kinda tough at first (you start pressing, nothing happens, press a little more and the car jumps off the line).


No, it's not nearly that bad. I don't really notice it anymore, the TSB for reprogramming did the trick for me.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
As another poster said the rear seats do not fold in the ES330.

However, the 4th generation ES is one of the best built ES ever produced. The 5th generation had noticeable cost cutting by Lexus. But, the 4th gen is a mini-LS. It's incredibly quiet and smooth.

I'd buy another 4ES in a heartbeat, love it!

The 4ES does have lag due to DBW, so make sure you can live with it. There were multiple TSB's to address it, but some still complain.


The 4th gen is the es330 from my investigation. Seems like we agree on which is best.

This Sunday I'm trying the sound deadening in the Focus. Like I said b4, if this doesn't prove to help my situation, I'll be in the market for one of these fine autos

I've also taken some time to investigate the parts prices for these, and they seem very reasonable considering the level of luxury. Obviously fluid replacements will be something I'd enjoy doing (as I currently already am doing).

thanks again!

 

[IndyIan]

There are some sound deadening topics on the Focus forums that might help. Mine has some foam blocks at the base of the A pillars in the door gap that the factory put in.
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if there's a noise canceling app for a smartphone?

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: hypervish
As another poster said the rear seats do not fold in the ES330.

However, the 4th generation ES is one of the best built ES ever produced. The 5th generation had noticeable cost cutting by Lexus. But, the 4th gen is a mini-LS. It's incredibly quiet and smooth.

I'd buy another 4ES in a heartbeat, love it!

The 4ES does have lag due to DBW, so make sure you can live with it. There were multiple TSB's to address it, but some still complain.


The 4th gen is the es330 from my investigation. Seems like we agree on which is best.

This Sunday I'm trying the sound deadening in the Focus. Like I said b4, if this doesn't prove to help my situation, I'll be in the market for one of these fine autos

I've also taken some time to investigate the parts prices for these, and they seem very reasonable considering the level of luxury. Obviously fluid replacements will be something I'd enjoy doing (as I currently already am doing).

thanks again!


Yes, the ES330 is 4th gens however the last two years of the ES300 are 4th gen (4ES) as well. Lexus first changed body styles, and later introduced the 3.3L.

4ES = 2002-2003 ES300 & 2004-2006 ES330.

Let us know how the sound deadening goes!

 

[Lolvoguy]

Well guys after two spray cans of "rubberized" sound deadening material and a liberal application of rubberized asphalt undercoating applied to the underside of the hood, I can finally say I'm actually impressed at the results! The materials alone cost about 30 dollars.

I also had a bag of old towels and tea towels from the kitchen I was using for rags in the trunk of my car. I removed the insulation on either side and placed towels over the panels before replacing them. For the spare cover area, I had some old thick towels I placed on the area behind the rear seat. I was going to use that asphalt undercoating stuff, but decided against it since it's inside the car and I could just imagine the stink when leaving the car for prolonged periods with the windows closed. When the trunk is open, none of these old towels are visible, but their effects are noticed!

When driving, the car is now noticeably quieter when going over coarse pavement. The engine is also less harsh sounding from the "goop" applied to the underside of the hood. It sounds less harsh and less abrasive.

Overall driving impressions reminded me of the VW Rabbit's and Golf's (German built models costing thousands more) I was considering when I purchased this car. It's tight, quiet, and provides just enough feedback without being obtrusive. This car has the upgraded "SES" suspension, and around some of the cloverleaf exits I can easily keep up with cars costing tens of thousands more (the Continental DWS's help). Nothing better than seeing the shocked faces of other drivers as I weave through them, while taking the exits.

I can honestly say that after applying spray to the undercarriage and the wheel wells, that this is something MANY cars on the road today could benefit from. Especially those with tire profiles less than 65 and with plastic wheel well liners (most cars on the road today).

Overall I have a new respect for my ride. Before I didn't care to maintain it nearly as much as my BMW, but now I'm liking it much more. Plans to trade it in have diminished now that I've addressed the noise.

I may start running it on Synthetic now too

 

[IndyIan]

That's great that some simple mods worked so well. I never thought of using blankets as sound insulation either, but that's cool that it worked.

 

[Lolvoguy]

yeah, I recall reading somewhere online how even the simplest rags and cloth bunched up, can be a great sound deadner. Makes sense considering most cars use recycled fabrics for noise insulation. You can tell it's used, since you can see specs of different color materials in it.

I can't believe I waited so long to address this issue that's been plaguing me. Simple yet effective