Microgreen filter- MG411-3

[jlb1919]

Has anyone used microgreen filter on a duramax or any other diesel for that matter ?

They state that their filters have a 2 stage filter: full flow with 25-40 micron rating but also an internal 2 micro filter.

www.microgreenfilter.com

 

[UncleDave]

Yes I run them on my Cat 3126.

I run it like any other premium filter with either standard of moderately extended OCI's on good synthetics in vehicles.

I do extend genset OCIs and sumps on them.

This is a controversial filter here as many feel MG doesn't properly state the 4548-12 spec.

I haven't gone to 30K on a single sump but at least one guy here has and with good results from Blackstone - which is this sites gold standard until its results challenge the internal establishments narratives, then it means nothing.

I like the management team and design of the filter, and have been using them several years and have had zero issue,

I cut them open and can see the particles caught by the micro disk, but I also use magnets and believe in them as filtration assistance, or in the case of small engines with no filter that they are markedly better than nothing at all.

You can get them reasonably priced on sale in packs of 2, not being able to walk into a parts store and but them is a pain, but they have always delivered on time and accurately.

I had one problem with their choice of OEM replacement not fitting and they jumped to getting me what I needed right away.

UD

 

[901Memphis]

They have been used by a few members here for gas engines. You can see them cut open if search Google.

The Fram Ultras are 99%+ efficiency @20 microns and 80% efficient @5 microns

 

[jlb1919]

Uncle Dave ... do you know if it will remove soot also ?

 

[DBMaster]

I'm the guy Uncle Dave is talking about. I use them as detailed on the MG web site; three filters, same oil, 30,000 miles. Based on the UOA I had done it is a safe practice. I am on round 2 with nearly 20,000 miles on the same oil. I buy the filters as needed since they have frequent sales during which you can buy them for around $7.50 each, delivered.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
They have been used by a few members here for gas engines. You can see them cut open if search Google.

The Fram Ultras are 99%+ efficiency @20 microns and 80% efficient @5 microns


I'm skeptical until MG publishes actual efficiency data for their filter. I've posted this before but based on basic math the Fram Ultra seems just as efficient as the MG.

 

[jlb1919]

Thanks for the information... what type of engine are using it on ?

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: jlb1919
Uncle Dave ... do you know if it will remove soot also ?


If it does what it claims, it would be able to remove agglomerated soot larger than 2-3microns at some beta rate, but a limited amount.

The micro disk has VERY limited capacity.

Even if it does everything they say it is not equal to an external bypass or superior 2 cummins stage stratapour venturi, but better than a single stage from my visual evidence of matter collected on top of the micro disk that is paste like.

If you can find one for your application - use the cummins 2 stage.

I Run FU's as well, its a great filter, but with one single stage cannot really compete with a dual stage. (If the dual stage manufacturer is being truthful)

This will be hotly contested and debated ad infinitum here so much so as to discourage an actual conversation about it.

I've used and looked at these for years now and I believe it performs as advertised.

UD

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: jlb1919
Thanks for the information... what type of engine are using it on ?


If you are talking to me, it's a 2012 Mazda3 Skyactiv (DI) engine.

 

[Toptierpao]

My buddy uses them.The thing I do not like is that Microgreen does not provide one single used oil analysis ,yet,they promote oil analysis. I cannot even find a used oil analysis of an oil using a Microgreen filter. Anyone here have one?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
My buddy uses them.The thing I do not like is that Microgreen does not provide one single used oil analysis ,yet,they promote oil analysis. I cannot even find a used oil analysis of an oil using a Microgreen filter. Anyone here have one?


What in a typical UPA would you be looking at that would have any relevance? used oil analysis from different engines, different operating conditions, different driving habits and different oils would have little relevance. Only a trend of used oil analysis information directly related to your specific conditions is comparable.

Besides, an oil filter has almost zero influence on a typical used oil analysis, especially in gasoline engines. In microGreen's defense what other filter manufacturer provides used oil analysis information?

 

[Toptierpao]

Originally Posted By: kschachn


What in a typical UPA would you be looking at that would have any relevance? used oil analysis from different engines, different operating conditions, different driving habits and different oils would have little relevance.

Besides, an oil filter has almost zero influence on a typical used oil analysis, especially in gasoline engines. In microGreen's defense what other filter manufacturer provides used oil analysis information?


So,why do we use oil filters??? They filter contaminants from the oil,some,much better than the others,Your statement is baffling. Microgreen states that they have put their filter on a car with used oil.They claim that the filter actually cleans the oil,so,how can you say that the filter has no influence on a used oil analysis?

I would like to see a report of someone who used a specific oil filter showing the trend with that filter and then a report of the oil using the Microgreen filter showing that trend. If the filter is as good as their 2 micron claims,it will be evident. Comparisons should be with spin on filters and not,true bypass filtration.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
So,why do we use oil filters??? They filter contaminants from the oil,some,much better than the others,Your statement is baffling. Microgreen states that they have put their filter on a car with used oil.They claim that the filter actually cleans the oil,so,how can you say that the filter has no influence on a used oil analysis?

I would like to see a report of someone who used a specific oil filter showing the trend with that filter and then a report of the oil using the Microgreen filter showing that trend. If the filter is as good as their 2 micron claims,it will be evident. Comparisons should be with spin on filters and not,true bypass filtration.


What shows up on a typical used oil analysis isn't the same thing that causes engine wear or damage. All filters "clean" the oil of solids, but those won't show up on an analysis.

Your second statement is different though. It's not a Blackstone used oil analysis but ISO 4548 that is a standardized test for oil filters. Results for that test are what you're looking for. Be careful though as ISO 4548 is a series of tests. Saying you have tested to ISO 4548 has no meaning unless the specific sub-test is reported.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Your second statement is different though. It's not a Blackstone UOA but ISO 4548 that is a standardized test for oil filters. Results for that test are what you're looking for. Be careful though as ISO 4548 is a series of tests. Saying you have tested to ISO 4548 has no meaning unless the specific sub-test is reported.


Yep, it's ISO 4548-12 that addresses oil filter efficiency testing. Here's a short summary of what each sub-test in ISO 4548 is for.


OIL FILTER TESTS PER ISO 4548

ISO 4548-1:1997
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 1: Differential pressure/flow characteristics. This part of ISO 4548 specifies tests for determining the differential pressure/flow characteristics of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines.

Tests are specified with oils at two viscosities, one to assess the performance of a filter with a cold oil and the other to assess its performance with an oil at a typical operating temperature.


ISO 4548-2:1997
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 2: Element by-pass valve characteristics. This part of ISO 4548 specifies tests for determining the element by-pass valve characteristics of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines.

Tests are specified with oils at two viscosities, one to assess the performance of an element by-pass valve with a cold oil and the other to assess its performance with an oil at a typical operating temperature.


ISO 4548-3:1997
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 3: Resistance to high differential pressure and to elevated temperature.

This part of ISO 4548 specifies tests for measuring the resistance to high differential pressure and the resistance to elevated temperatures of filter elements of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines.


ISO 4548-4:1997
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 4: Initial particle retention efficiency, life and cumulative efficiency (gravimetric method).

This part of ISO 4548 specifies tests for determining the performance of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines as follows.

Section 2: Initial particle retention efficiency. This gives the test procedures and parameters for the determination of the initial particle retention efficiency of lubricating oil filter elements under defined test conditions. By reporting the results in accordance with subclause 2.6, the probable retention efficiency for any particle size may be derived. The retention efficiency is determined by the gravimetric method.

Section 3: Life and cumulative efficiency. This gives the test procedures and parameters for the determination of element life and cumulative efficiency of lubricating oil filters. The cumulative efficiency is determined by the gravimetric method.


ISO 4548-5:1990
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 5: Cold start simulation and hydraulic pulse durability test.

Specifies a method of testing the ability of oil filters to withstand an internal pressure surge such as occurs when an engine is started from cold, and cyclic internal pressure variations experienced during operation.

Specifies a method of testing the ability of oil filters to withstand an internal pressure surge such as occurs when an engine is started from cold, and cyclic internal pressure variations experienced during operation.


ISO 4548-6:1985
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 6: Static burst pressure test.
Establishes standard test procedures for measuring the performance of filters. It does not apply to filters for use in aeronautical applications. Includes the report of test results. Describes test rig and test liquid.

Establishes standard test procedures for measuring the performance of filters. It does not apply to filters for use in aeronautical applications. Includes the report of test results. Describes test rig and test liquid.


ISO 4548-7:1990
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 7: Vibration fatigue test.
Specifies a method of testing the constructional integrity of oil filters to withstand engine or installation vibration. This test is intended to filters with disposable elements with a maximum flow rate of 100 l/min.

Specifies a method of testing the constructional integrity of oil filters to withstand engine or installation vibration. This test is intended to filters with disposable elements with a maximum flow rate of 100 l/min.


No ISO 4548 Part 8 found.


ISO 4548-9:2008
---------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 9: Inlet and outlet anti-drain valve tests.

ISO 4548-9:2007 specifies methods of measuring the effectiveness of either inlet or outlet anti-drain valves if fitted to a full-flow lubricating oil filter of the "spin-on" or "easy change" type, for internal combustion engines.

ISO 4548-9:2007 specifies methods of measuring the effectiveness of either inlet or outlet anti-drain valves if fitted to a full-flow lubricating oil filter of the "spin-on" or "easy change" type, for internal combustion engines.


No ISO 4548 Part 10 found.


ISO 4548-11:1997
----------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 11: Self-cleaning filters.

This part of ISO 4548 specifies test methods for evaluating the characteristics of self-cleaning oil filters for internal combustion engines. It is applicable to filters in which self-cleaning is continuous or intermittent.

The removal of retained particles from the filter is achieved by periodic reversal of the direction of the fluid flow through the elements. However, this also applies mechanical stresses to the filter media. The tests specified in this standard are designed to check the filtration performance of the elements under simulated operating conditions and to confirm their ability to withstand, without damage, variations in oil pressure, temperature, direction-of flow and the presence of water.

The equipment and procedures specified in this part of ISO 4548 are recommended for filters having a nominal flow rate of up to 1600 l/min.



ISO 4548-12:2000
----------------
Methods of test for full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines -- Part 12: Filtration efficiency using particle counting, and contaminant retention capacity.

This part of ISO 4548 specifies a multi-pass filtration test with continuous contaminant injection and using the online particle counting method for evaluating the performance of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines.

The test procedure determines the contaminant capacity of a filter, its particulate removal characteristics and differential pressure.

This test is intended for application to filter elements having a rated flow between 4 l/min and 600 l/min and with an efficiency of less than 99 % at a particle size greater than 10 microns.

 

[Toptierpao]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
So,why do we use oil filters??? They filter contaminants from the oil,some,much better than the others,Your statement is baffling. Microgreen states that they have put their filter on a car with used oil.They claim that the filter actually cleans the oil,so,how can you say that the filter has no influence on a used oil analysis?

I would like to see a report of someone who used a specific oil filter showing the trend with that filter and then a report of the oil using the Microgreen filter showing that trend. If the filter is as good as their 2 micron claims,it will be evident. Comparisons should be with spin on filters and not,true bypass filtration.


What shows up on a typical used oil analysis isn't the same thing that causes engine wear or damage. All filters "clean" the oil of solids, but those won't show up on an analysis.

Your second statement is different though. It's not a Blackstone used oil analysis but ISO 4548 that is a standardized test for oil filters. Results for that test are what you're looking for. Be careful though as ISO 4548 is a series of tests. Saying you have tested to ISO 4548 has no meaning unless the specific sub-test is reported.


I was thinking more along the lines of a particle count.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
I was thinking more along the lines of a particle count.


Does microGreen make specific claims about particles on their website? I thought the only thing they promote is TBN retention (expressed in extended drains).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
I was thinking more along the lines of a particle count.


I don't think a standard UOA counts particle size down small enough to tell if one filter is working better than another. Need a special particle counting test (up and beyond the UOA method) for that I believe.