Metal in oil at 25k - 2023 Tacoma

[Cherrybomb]

I'm not a Blackstone user,and not slamming them in any way.You could try another oil analysis service and take out your Fumota for another option as you previously mentioned a possible drain issue with leaving a little oil in the pan

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes. FlatSix/Raby advises at least 2 fills b4 DT40 takes over from prior different oil fills, unless you flush or use DT/Driven 30wt for a short run iirc.

Here is another point of reference on DT40 5w40 from my own 996 confirmed higher zddp after 3rd DT40 fill. This most recent Cat UOA was a low mile run b/c don’t drive it much, but was in sump for a year. Need to review oxidation level given low mile run, but 1 year change. Not sure what normal value should be b/c BS reports may not list oxidation value. Need to read on the issue and compare some similar UOAs from speed diagnostix etc (Lake Speed Jr).

May have a newer DT40 sample to send off to Cat with more miles if I can find in my garage. Just received this Cat report tonight.

My Blackstone reports and records indicate prior two fills were DT40 at 85,655 and 83,706. Before that at least 2 fills of Liquid Moly leichtlauf hi tech 5w40 A40 approved. And Motul 5w40 at 82,101 and 81,326). Have to look for individual BS reports to confirm oils used in BS report below.

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Those are some very considerable changes in the amount of phosphorous and moly over those OCI's, would be interesting to find out if this is formulation change or not.

Your 83,706 sample has ILSAC levels of phosphorous and much lower levels of moly, as does your 83,388, while the two before that are clearly higher, as is the 84,169 one, which looks closer to the VOA I posted, though moly here is lower than in the VOA.

 

[sds911]

Those are some very considerable changes in the amount of phosphorous and moly over those OCI's, would be interesting to find out if this is formulation change or not.

Your 83,706 sample has ILSAC levels of phosphorous and much lower levels of moly, as does your 83,388, while the two before that are clearly higher, as is the 84,169 one, which looks closer to the VOA I posted, though moly here is lower than in the VOA.

I will check for newer VOA online maybe by Speed Diagostix. I have 9qts new of DT40 in my garage ordered late last year on sale. I can do a VOA with Cat Labs if necessary.

From my recollection it is ad pack competing with prior oil protective layer or different ad pack of common off the shelf 0w40 and 5w40 A40 oils. But, that’s from memory or Rennlist 996 forum post(s) by Jake Raby/Flat Six et al.

 

[OVERKILL]

I will check for newer VOA online maybe by Speed Diagostix. I have 9qts new of DT40 in my garage ordered late last year on sale. I can do a VOA with Cat Labs if necessary.

From my recollection it is ad pack competing with prior oil protective layer or different ad pack of common off the shelf 0w40 and 5w40 A40 oils. But, that’s from memory or Rennlist 996 forum post by Jake Raby/Flat Six etc.

Be good to standardize on a lab. I use OAI/Polaris now for everything, and others are starting to use it more too, since it provides real GC fuel, unlike Blackstone. They aren't perfect (I did have to have one test re-run because the levels were lower than they should be) but elementally, my HPL VOA's have matched what Dave has indicated the oil should look like, which is quite unlike what we've seen with many Blackstone tests vs say the Mobil 1 Product Guide for example.

 

[sds911]

Here is a DT40 VOA on Speed Diagnostix website that they conducted and posted in 2019. Look at that Phos ppm! I guess my oxidation value is fine on my last DT40 UOA based on VOA at 40. Wasn’t sure b/c I don’t think Blackstone reported oxidation on the basic UOAs.

They were doing VOAs on a range of oils, additives (ceratec etc) and other products for enthusiasts like us. It is in line with my last low mileage DT40 UOA from Cat labs.

Here is a link to all the VOAs they did:

https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis

 

[sds911]

Be good to standardize on a lab. I use OAI/Polaris now for everything, and others are starting to use it more too, since it provides real GC fuel, unlike Blackstone. They aren't perfect (I did have to have one test re-run because the levels were lower than they should be) but elementally, my HPL VOA's have matched what Dave has indicated the oil should look like, which is quite unlike what we've seen with many Blackstone tests vs say the Mobil 1 Product Guide for example.

I went with Cat b/c it’s $18 and 1 week turnaround. I doubt I’ll do another BS analysis due to price and turnaround times.

 

[OVERKILL]

Here is a DT40 VOA on Speed Diagnostix website that they conducted and posted. They were doing VOAs on a range of oils, additives (ceratec etc) and other products for enthusiasts like us. It is in line with my last low mileage DT40 UOA from Cat labs.

Here is a link to all the VOAs they did:

https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis

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The plot thickens, as that's even older than the two samples we shared and discussed earlier, lol.

Your previous OCI's on DT40, with the different figures for additives, are they all from the same batch of oil you procured, or have you bought it as you've needed it?

 

[sds911]

The plot thickens, as that's even older than the two samples we shared and discussed earlier, lol.

Your previous OCI's on DT40, with the different figures for additives, are they all from the same batch of oil you procured, or have you bought it as you've needed it?

Purchased as needed. Started at like $11 a quart or so and now $16 or more. I got a good deal on last batch probably on Black Friday or holiday sale Will have to see if I can find price. But seem to recall 25% off sale or similar. Versus $60 for Mobil 1 5w50 fs A40 approved, 10qts at Napa. And my guess is the 5w50 will shear to 5w40 in the 996.

 

[OVERKILL]

I went with Cat b/c it’s $18 and 1 week turnaround. I doubt I’ll do another BS analysis due to price and turnaround times.

Yeah, OAI/Polaris isn't $18, lol

I stopped using CAT (I was using Toromont) when their reports got a lot less detailed and then they told me they couldn't do fuel on samples from gasoline engines. While the price was good, I wasn't getting the information I wanted, which is why I switched to paying more for OAI through AMSOIL (which is just Polaris).

I've done baseline samples for both my HPL lubes (necessary due to the high virgin oxidation) and then did a UOA, which, on the one vehicle, was properly relative to the baseline, but on the other, for some reason it wasn't and so oxidation was flagged.

 

[sds911]

Yeah, OAI/Polaris isn't $18, lol

I stopped using CAT (I was using Toromont) when their reports got a lot less detailed and then they told me they couldn't do fuel on samples from gasoline engines. While the price was good, I wasn't getting the information I wanted, which is why I switched to paying more for OAI through AMSOIL (which is just Polaris).

I've done baseline samples for both my HPL lubes (necessary due to the high virgin oxidation) and then did a UOA, which, on the one vehicle, was properly relative to the baseline, but on the other, for some reason it wasn't and so oxidation was flagged.

The Cat lab rep told me they only do fuel if viscocity is off. Don’t see any specific fuel issues on my GX460 reports. I’ll post those tonight once I double check the oil brand, weight and miles. I lost my notes on my phone, so have to check the post your latest oil change thread here to make sure I gave Cat correct info.

 

[sds911]

Yeah, OAI/Polaris isn't $18, lol

I stopped using CAT (I was using Toromont) when their reports got a lot less detailed and then they told me they couldn't do fuel on samples from gasoline engines. While the price was good, I wasn't getting the information I wanted, which is why I switched to paying more for OAI through AMSOIL (which is just Polaris).

I've done baseline samples for both my HPL lubes (necessary due to the high virgin oxidation) and then did a UOA, which, on the one vehicle, was properly relative to the baseline, but on the other, for some reason it wasn't and so oxidation was flagged.

Yeah. I can’t justify higher UOA prices right now. I purchased 10 kits at CAT for 187 including tax and delivery to the Cat labs in Aurora CO.

I was hoping for fuel dilution on the report. But, I guess if my viscosity is good and wear metals low, it will be ok. And if visc is low, lab said they would tell me about fuel dilution.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yeah. I can’t justify higher UOA prices right now. I purchased 10 kits at CAT for 187 including tax and delivery to the Cat labs in Aurora CO.

I was hoping for fuel dilution on the report. But, I guess if my viscosity is good and wear metals low, it will be ok. And if visc is low, lab said they would tell me about fuel dilution.

Totally get that. Here's HPL Super Car 0W-40. BL = Baseline, you'll see that they (unnecessarily) flagged oxidation, even though it was high in the baseline

Sample 1 is Ravenol SSL 0W-40, you can ignore that one, lol.

 

[Cherrybomb]

I also use Polaris, as my Tiguan is short tripped,and goes in the red after 5,000 miles.So I like to keep track.Thats why in my previous post I recommended trying a different company

 

[meep]

1. It is interesting to me that Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (TGMO) is known to have a high dose of antiwear additives. Moly? As a new 2.5T Tacoma owner I’ve been doing shallow-dive reading just enough to determine that at least the oil changes under warranty will get TGMO at $10/quart. Not that flakes and slivers are an oil issue.

2. I suspect chain drives are capable of shedding a lot in their early years. I’ve never seen glitter in timing belt engines, but have in timing chain engines. Some shedding may be normal.

3. My ford 2.7 always made some amount of glitter and I never really took notice until I started hearing startup noise around 85k. The family is known for potential timing sprocket woes so I assumed that was the sparkle-maker.

4. At 25k, this could also be manufacturing remnant. I don’t think I’d worry yet, if at all.

5. Reflash to remove the tune? I wouldn’t be surprised if they can see evidence that it happened.

6. Back to oil. TGMO may be secret sauce for these engines that see auto-start-stop. If it can make it to the prescribed 10k interval, the extra cost might be work out as the the right move.

 

[Glassman1122]

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First time poster so if I’m not posting correctly I apologize.

This is what I found at the bottom of my oil pan after pouring out my oil filter at 25k on my 23 Tacoma. I’ve done oil changes every 5k but noticed more flake on this change. I’ve done a couple blackstone analyses on this truck in the past (5k and 15k) and both came back normal. I did not take a sample from this oil change (accidentally contaminated it) but will 100% take one and send one next time I change it out.

For those of you that change your own oil frequently, does this level of flake look concerning to you? Truck drives fine. Just want to know what more experienced people think. I will take any bashing as a good sign that I am overreacting! TIA.

I am having nearly identical issue. I have 22 Tacoma I change the oil every 5000 miles 26000 miles I just did the oil myself, and I noticed lots a gold glitter in the oil the truck is a lease up in June and I plan on buying the vehicle out now I don’t know that I’m very concerned. I took a sample and sent it out to speed diagnostics, but I’m waiting on results. Did you ever come to any conclusions with your vehicle? I have independent thing that shows that Toyota oil filters are not very good. I don’t know if maybe they just have a trapped material.
Here today, link to the video of the gold in my oil

 

[Glassman1122]

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First time poster so if I’m not posting correctly I apologize.

This is what I found at the bottom of my oil pan after pouring out my oil filter at 25k on my 23 Tacoma. I’ve done oil changes every 5k but noticed more flake on this change. I’ve done a couple blackstone analyses on this truck in the past (5k and 15k) and both came back normal. I did not take a sample from this oil change (accidentally contaminated it) but will 100% take one and send one next time I change it out.

For those of you that change your own oil frequently, does this level of flake look concerning to you? Truck drives fine. Just want to know what more experienced people think. I will take any bashing as a good sign that I am overreacting! TIA.

So I have another update to this story I decided to take my truck to Toyota show them the video showing the gold medal dust in the oil. The service rider asked me to text her the video and then she would go show the shop foreman which she did and she came back and said that he said it’s no problem because it’s small Anyways as I’m leaving they have me drive through the shop with the technicians as the service driver was backed up. The service rider walked away, and I decided to go talk to the technicians myself showed them the video. He shook his head, went and showed it to two other technicians which both gave me the thumbs down and said that’s not good and don’t buy this truck out of lease

 

[meep]

That really does seem like a lot.

 

[Glassman1122]

That really does seem like a lot.

Final update I received my diagnostics back from speed and everything was perfect after doing a bit of research. What I believe is there is the brass threaded fitting on the oil canister and I screw in a steel threaded drain hose to make less of a meth and I believe the threads of the steel drain hose were shearing off some of the gold brass from the filter housing

 

[addyguy]

Interesting detective work!
Does seem like a lot of metal for the vehicle to be running fine, I’d just keep doing short changes to flush it all out.

 

[meep]

Good deep dive. I was thinking of this when changing 11,000 mile oil in a 150k mile Camry this weekend. There was not one single bit of glitter in the cartridge pleats, unlike my F150 with 88k miles, which had many tiny sparkles everywhere, and startup noise to provide a likely source.