Metal Flakes / Particles in Oil,

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: jceo
Eric, what were the symptoms of the failing timing chain guide?


I'm not 100% sure to be truthful. The engine was replaced due to high oil consumption from an improperly installed air filter (dusted). It did have a pretty noticeable start up rattle when it sat for a while, that the replacement engine doesn't have.

 

[PimTac]

Wouldn't 50k be too early for timing chain guides? Besides, how much metal if any are in the guides? I thought they were resin/plastic?

 

[Blinker]

I have an oil container that has metallic speckles in the plastic. Wiping it clean did not remove the speckles so that's when i realized it was in the plastic...It scared the heck out of me when I bought it 10 years ago.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: stower17
I have an oil container that has metallic speckles in the plastic. Wiping it clean did not remove the speckles so that's when i realized it was in the plastic...It scared the heck out of me when I bought it 10 years ago.


Mow there's a conspiracy. Sponsored by big oil/big engine reman interests, for sure.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Perhaps it's from failing/failed timing chain guides?


These pics are from a '13 Wrangler I put an engine in:

Thanks. I've been thinking of maybe getting a Jeep

These pictures are much more effective aversion therapy than the other information I've been getting. Easily worth a thousand words.

 

[R18Civic]

I had a very similar issue on my 3800 powered Buick. That pic looks just like what I had found in my old oil 40k miles ago. I looked at it direct sunlight which gives the illusion of the particles reflecting light due to the oil.

It worried me so much I cut my filter open and found nothing. Rubbing the "metal" particles in between my fingers caused them to disintegrate. From what I could gather it was just silica that made its way in through my K&N filter.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
From what I could gather it was just silica that made its way in through my K&N filter.


You find sand in your engine reassuring?

Can you give us an example of something you'd find upsetting, for calibration purposes?

Maybe a Great White Shark?

 

[R18Civic]

People have used K&N for years without any issues. The downfall of the cotton gauze filters is that they allow more fine particles to pass through them.

If it was that big of an issue K&N would've been hit by a class action lawsuit by now.

I believe is was a thread on here that showed Amsoil's washable paper filters were the best at keeping foreign contaminants out of the engine, and plenty of people with K&N filters continued to use them without error even after UOA showed slightly elevated silica levels.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
People have used K&N for years without any issues. The downfall of the cotton gauze filters is that they allow more fine particles to pass through them.

If it was that big of an issue K&N would've been hit by a class action lawsuit by now.

I believe is was a thread on here that showed Amsoil's washable paper filters were the best at keeping foreign contaminants out of the engine, and plenty of people with K&N filters continued to use them without error even after UOA showed slightly elevated silica levels.


One would think it is similar to the torn oil filters we see here. It's not something that is immediately and obviously detrimental to the engine but what is the upside?

 

[R18Civic]

The only upside is that intake roar.

Only bad thing I've heard is one guy who rebuilds engines claims the silica sharpens piston rings.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
People have used K&N for years without any issues. The downfall of the cotton gauze filters is that they allow more fine particles to pass through them.

If it was that big of an issue K&N would've been hit by a class action lawsuit by now.

I believe is was a thread on here that showed Amsoil's washable paper filters were the best at keeping foreign contaminants out of the engine, and plenty of people with K&N filters continued to use them without error even after UOA showed slightly elevated silica levels.


Depends how you define "issue" and "error". If the filter is supposed/expected to allow sand in your engine, then it isn't an "error", but I'd find it an issue.

"No issue" usually means "nothing blew up", the gold standard for good 'ol boys everywhere.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: kschachn


One would think it is similar to the torn oil filters we see here. It's not something that is immediately and obviously detrimental to the engine but what is the upside?


I'd say it's a bit worse than that, since a torn oil filter doesn't open your engine to external dirt.

Some people run engines without any air filter, but I think they are mostly bikers. Nuff said?

They call it a "velocity stack" IIRC, which probably sounds "cool" if you're a butt head biker.

 

[R18Civic]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
People have used K&N for years without any issues. The downfall of the cotton gauze filters is that they allow more fine particles to pass through them.

If it was that big of an issue K&N would've been hit by a class action lawsuit by now.

I believe is was a thread on here that showed Amsoil's washable paper filters were the best at keeping foreign contaminants out of the engine, and plenty of people with K&N filters continued to use them without error even after UOA showed slightly elevated silica levels.


Depends how you define "issue" and "error". If the filter is supposed/expected to allow sand in your engine, then it isn't an "error", but I'd find it an issue.

"No issue" usually means "nothing blew up", the gold standard for good 'ol boys everywhere.


I'll take my chances.



Slow but sounds like a beast now

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Look quite big. Try putting a magnet on them. Also try and collect them (and save some of the old oil too) since they probably wont be present in the sample you sent to Blackstone and probably wouldn't feature in the analysis if they were.


Yeah id do this and show pictures to your local dealer...


+1 I would also consider trying a better filter. Maybe a Fram TG for example. I would switch it up after speaking to the dealer. I know they can make a stink if it isn't the "OEM" filter (even though a TG would be a higher quality.) Ultimately I feel that it is worth documenting should be a more major problem

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
From what I could gather it was just silica that made its way in through my K&N filter.


You find sand in your engine reassuring?

Can you give us an example of something you'd find upsetting, for calibration purposes?

Maybe a Great White Shark?


I Lol'd at this

 

[R18Civic]

It would be more upsetting if it ended up being what I thought it was, which was babbit material.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Hemispheres
It would be more upsetting if it ended up being what I thought it was, which was babbit material.

Has it been determined what it is or isn't? Or did I just miss that somewhere.

 

[R18Civic]

Bad bearing(s) would've been accompanied by noise/knocking and oil pressure issues.

As I said this occurred 40k miles ago, if it was bearings the car wouldn't have made it this far along.

Given that it disintegrates when I rub it between my fingers it's one of two things:

Small pieces of the oil filter pleats, but looking at the inside of the filter that isn't it.

Silica is my bet, but I'm not worried about it. If it was accompanied by aluminum, iron, copper etc it would be indicative of engine wear. However I only burn one quart of oil per 6k mile interval which is a bit less that accepted as common.

Mileage is 116k and she runs like the day I got her.

 

[jceo]

Well guys, I'm kind of at a loss. The Blackstone Lab results came back but there are no signs of trouble. Please see the report below and let me know your thoughts:

 

[kschachn]

It is also possible that the particles, whatever they are will not show up on a UOA. Most non-metallic particles and/or metallic particles too large to be detected by ICP won't show up unless they are acid digested.

In your situation I would motor on making sure my air filter and associated piping is in good shape.