Mercedes, What's the Deal ??

[loneryder]

Here's my experience on the answer to this.

tl;dr version: I have an oldish Mercedes. Too many Mercedes and Audi owners are douches. Not most, but 5x more than other car brand owners. The best independent mechanics won't work on them for that reason.

Long version:

My wife has a 2002 SLK320. The OEM parts cost more than other Japanese and Korean brands (about 2-3x as much on average I'd say). As for the labor, some dealerships REALLY gouge on this. Call a low rated one on Yelp/Google reviews and ask what the labor is to replace the two upstream O2 sensors on a 2002 SLK320 - it took me 30 minutes to do both by myself; I did have the proper tools. I called for fun to get a quote just so I could brag to my wife how much I saved her - they wanted $600 in labor,$200 in parts. $600?!.

And it is hard to find a really well reviewed independent that will touch a Mercedes. I have two 5 star rated on Yelp mechanics with many reviews near me (I'm lucky) and they as a default policy refuse to work on them. The 4 star independant I had to use when the conduction plate shorted in the manual transmission (leading the car anti-theft crypto to go haywire and immobilize the car. You need the massive $$$ factory computer to reset that BS after fixing.) who specializes in Mercedes frankly charges a LOT for his work (but still less than a dealership), and the value priced 4 star mechanic shops aren't really qualified to work on a Benz, sadly. Unless its something very basic say like say shocks and struts. I'm on a friendly basis with both of these shop owners and they've confided it is because too many of the owners (not most, but probably 5x as many as average) are entitled snowflakes and will threaten to sue you at the drop of a hat if say their fuel pump goes out while you're just changing their oil and putting in new wheel bearings on their out of warranty ride. And even if they don't sue or even say anything about it they'll definitely give you a terrible online review. They both do make an exception for me but I'm just the exception that proves the rule. Audis are banned also for the same reason. I'll note they are both happy to work on BMWs (well not the 7 series).

So an anecdote only, but they're so expensive to fix from my (and combined many decades of two shops that total about 8 mechanics total) experience because there's too many bad apple owners of them, and the OEM parts are very expensive. On top of that some gouging dealers that know many owners won't shop around (or can't). And no independent mechanic will stick a non-OEM part in the car if you could get them to work on it because of fear of said bad apple owners, so its hard to save there.

So if you want to get the repair expenses to be less expensive I suggest one or more of the following:

1. fix some stuff yourself if you're inclined
2. make friends with your top rated local independent so he'll make an exception for you. Treat them like they're war veterans who have PTSD triggered by your Mercedes or Audi - be very calm and understanding. Preferably have them already doing work on hopefully other brand cars you bring them so are invested in the relationship. Also, if you can bring the (preferably OEM, non-OEM are another PTSD trigger lol) parts yourself. Be prepared to be patient with turn around times because they won't have an established relationship with a Benz or Audi dealership and will be the dealership's parts department lowest priority (they are competition). So don't be surprised when you have to wait 2 business days for the part to be shipped from elsewhere in the country because the dealership is passively aggressively sabotaging things (oops, we sent over the wrong part AGAIN? So so sorry.)
3. Pay for an extended transferable warranty that the dealer will accept (easy to get up to 120k miles nowadays). Sell the car at 115k miles to somebody like me.

There are very good indy shops that service only German cars. I use one in Va and one in FL. In both of them the owners worked for MB for years. Then they set up their own shops with much cheaper labor and made a killing. They both only use MB parts which they get at a good discount and then mark up less than a dealer. One does only MB and the other only does MB and BMW.

 

[loneryder]

Well, you say that Mercedes has parts available for every car they've ever built? Really? NOT TRUE! I have a 1995 E300d that needed a wiring harness and looked on the internet and found none! I went to the dealer in Tucson and they told me the wiring harness was no longer available! My Mechanic said he will just make one and install it himself. There were wiring harness for the gasoline cars but NOT the diesel model. My mechanic used to tell me the same thing about getting parts for Mercedes. Boy, was he surprised when they told us that part is no longer available!! He started working on Mercedes in 1977 and was always told that. He started working at a Mercedes dealer in Los Angeles, CA. I have 4 Mercedes cars. 3 diesels and 1 gas car. Really super cars no doubt. But the parts always being available, NOT TRUE!

My 2000 CLK needed a new headlight switch which was not available, aftermarket or MB. I found one on eBay from a junk yard in CT. Mechanic told me MB only has to provide parts for 10 yrs. There are a lot of CLK's still on the road and they were/are excellent cars.

 

[Trav]

MB in Germany keeps parts available at a minimum for the expected lifespan of the car, in the case of the W123 it stated in the owners manual 30 years.

 

[Nick1994]

Want a luxury car that’s affordable with reasonable reliability? Buy a Genesis. Very happy with mine.

@rooflessVW have you driven one? This guy wants a C class Mercedes. Definitely an upgrade.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I have always been told an oil change on a Mercedes is around $100.00 or more and that it is a difficult procedure to do for a common backyard mechanic with limited tools. I don't know if this is still true? A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

 

[barryh]

As long as you are prepared to pump the oil out via the dipstick tube then most modern Mercedes are very easy cars to change the oil on. The top mounted oil filter housing is a godsend. You just unscrew the housing and leave it in place to allow the oil to drain back down to the sump. No mess or bother at all. So there is no sensible reason why it should cost more than any other car. Even Mercedes own oil can be cheap enough. Genuine Mercedes oil can be bought in a 20L box for £68

 

[edyvw]

I have always been told an oil change on a Mercedes is around $100.00 or more and that it is a difficult procedure to do for a common backyard mechanic with limited tools. I don't know if this is still true? A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

I personally do not like Mercedes, but for example on BMW it takes me faster than on my Toyota, and Toyota does not have belly pan and BMW does. But there are nice "doors" that you open, and screw is there. It is top mounted filter and it is a breeze, though changing filter in VW Tiguan is probably fastest I have seen.
Also, Euro dealerships always have deals. But if you are DIY, you can get oil for and Euro car for some $22/5qt.

 

[Astro14]

I have always been told an oil change on a Mercedes is around $100.00 or more and that it is a difficult procedure to do for a common backyard mechanic with limited tools. I don't know if this is still true? A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

You’ve been told wrong.

Sure, an oil change with 9.5 quarts of synthetic will be expensive, but an oil change on a Mercedes isn’t hard.

In fact, with a top mounted filter cartridge, and a simple drain plug (or oil extractor), it’s easier and less messy than any other car or truck I’ve owned. Easier than a SBC, Ford 302, easier than any of my Toyota’s, which were all messy.

Even my Tundra, with its bottom mounted cartridge, is a messy pain. The belly pan is harder to remove, the filter requires special tools. I bought a special tool to drain the cartridge, and I bought an oil extractor to make the job less of a mess.

Yep, bought the oil extractor for the truck, not the Mercedes, which is simple, quick, and neat by comparison.

 

[RooflessVW]

@rooflessVW have you driven one? This guy wants a C class Mercedes. Definitely an upgrade.

Yes, I've driven one. I'll take the Mercedes. Genesis is just an also-ran, like Cadillac now.

 

[4WD]

I didn't mean it like the Sonata is better than the Camry, but more along the lines of the evolution of cars over time. My 2000 Camry is small, cramped, the seats aren't that great, etc. while my 15' Sonata had a ton of room, the seats were awesome (I did 700 miles in one day last summer driving it).

Although I will add that I've sat in a 2017 Camry, and it was not near as roomy or comfortable as the Sonata.

I have rented both of those plenty (and leased a Sonata in Korea) …
… but will walk past them for a RWD Charger any day …

 

[BHopkins]

I have always been told an oil change on a Mercedes is around $100.00 or more and that it is a difficult procedure to do for a common backyard mechanic with limited tools. I don't know if this is still true? A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

As said by Astro 14, oil change on a Mercedes is no different than any other car. Oil filters cost about the same as any other premium quality oil filter, such as a Fram Ultra. My SL550 took almost 9 quarts, but with that much oil in the crankcase, I had no qualms with going over 10k - 13k miles between oil change, so that offset the cost of oil.

I personally use to use an oil extraction pump. The SL was so low to the ground, it took some effort o lift it, so the oil extractor made it real easy.

If I choose to drain my E350 through the drain plug, I have to remove a plastic panel. but that isn't anything different than many other modern cars. I even had to remove a panel on my old Alero.

My E350 takes just about 6.9 quarts, so 3 jugs of M1 European Formula will do two oil changes. So after Mobil 1 rebates, it costs me less than $30 to do an oil change. that's no more than most pickup trucks. How many quarts does a Duramax or Powerstroke take? I'm not a diesel guy, but I know it's up there.

When I bought my E350, there were a few things I had to fix. The previous owner hadn't babied it. But now that I have all the little trim things fixed, I only need to do normal services, and just drive it. Absolutely a joy to drive. Quiet. Comfortable. Great for long trips. Just did a 3500 mile round trip to visit my son and his family, and was totally impressed on how the comfort of the car made the drive easy and enjoyable.

If someone was looking for a luxury car, I would absolutely recommend an E class or S class. I've considered other luxury cars. But the Asian offerings just don't float my boat. The interiors aren't anything special from so many other cars. Audi makes some beautiful interiors, but they make a Mercedes look cheap to own. Same with BMW. Beautiful cars. But expensive to maintain. Much more than a Mercedes.

 

[BHopkins]

A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

Sounds like what I used to say....until I bought one. Now when I find myself considering trying a different car, I just can't get in to many other brands. They just seem boring. Although I am really turned on by the idea of driving a Cayenne. Yup. I think one should be in my future.

 

[BHopkins]

In business schools, they teach about Acura, then Lexus coming into the American market.
Acura made tiny dent in Mercedes sales; Lexus made them change the way they did business.

Before Lexus, when Mercedes wanted to update a car, they turned it over to Engineering and Design to come up with a car. They had almost total free reign. After the car was designed, then the bean counters would crunch the numbers and decide what the car would sell for. The result was a fantastic car.

After Lexus, Mercedes started designing cars like everyone else. Marketing considers the competition and decides a price point for a car. Then Engineering and Design have to work within the parameters that have been defined by Marketing and the bean counters. It made Mercedes struggle for quite a few years. But the last couple generations of E class cars are some of the most reliable luxury cars on the market. And more desirable. Read the reviews of the competition. I've never found a truly complimentary review of any of the Asian competition.

 

[JHZR2]

I love Mercedes cars. But I don’t care for the service. I don’t care for the niceties that they’re charging me for. For the fact that to get a replacement steel key for my 40 yo car, which I can readily do, I have to go work with an advisor.

Not a fan that they want to charge me $259 for an alignment on a 40yo car with no electronics.

And like any cars these days, the electronics are a hassle. All the coding, the very specific computer capabilities, that I then have to go back to a dealer that is charging me twice what they should so that I can feel fancy and get free danish.

I like nice things... I’m no slob, and not a pig, but give me a bit more gritty relative to my auto service. And give me a diesel...

Then I might go buy a Mercedes.

I’ll likely go buy a late model diesel e class at some point, I’m just full with cars at this point, and will be a little bit scared of dealing with them when the time comes. Plus there are so many old MB diesel cars I still want.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Before Lexus, when Mercedes wanted to update a car, they turned it over to Engineering and Design to come up with a car. They had almost total free reign. After the car was designed, then the bean counters would crunch the numbers and decide what the car would sell for. The result was a fantastic car.

After Lexus, Mercedes started designing cars like everyone else. Marketing considers the competition and decides a price point for a car. Then Engineering and Design have to work within the parameters that have been defined by Marketing and the bean counters. It made Mercedes struggle for quite a few years. But the last couple generations of E class cars are some of the most reliable luxury cars on the market. And more desirable. Read the reviews of the competition. I've never found a truly complimentary review of any of the Asian competition.

I hafta disagree with your take on the earlier MBZ cars. Mercedes had premium pricing built into the price to keep them exclusive. The first Lexus LS was a far more reliable car. Mercedes was forced to change their business. That's history.

 

[JHZR2]

I hafta disagree with your take on the earlier MBZ cars. Mercedes had premium pricing built into the price to keep them exclusive. The first Lexus LS was a far more reliable car. Mercedes was forced to change their business. That's history.

Maybe it was more reliable on paper... but you’ll see far more high mileage w126 cars still on the road today, than old LS. And plenty of them will be in the 200-300k mile range.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Maybe it was more reliable on paper... but you’ll see far more high mileage w126 cars still on the road today, than old LS. And plenty of them will be in the 200-300k mile range.

Disagree. The 1st gen LS ran and ran. Asked for very little. Maintenance was dirt cheap. They were easy 300K cars.
So many MBZ owners I spoke with bemoaned the Benz issues and high shop costs.
You probably know more about them than I ever will, but this is my experience.

 

[2EHA]

Maybe it was more reliable on paper... but you’ll see far more high mileage w126 cars still on the road today, than old LS. And plenty of them will be in the 200-300k mile range.

There’s more 126s on the road because owners are motivated to keep them alive, they’re inspiring and full of character. Few people rely on 80s Benzes unless you happen to live in the Western Sahara.

The difference with the LS400 is that nobody really wants one, they’re long past the stage of being reliable appliances and at the end of the day what you’re left with is a caricature of an MB with a 20 cent shift knob. That’s why the Lexus enthusiast community is dwarfed by those of MB and many other european makes.

The Q45 on the other hand was always a fairly troublesome car and dissappeared from our roads a long time ago but at least it had tons of character and was fun to drive.

 

[Wolf359]

I have always been told an oil change on a Mercedes is around $100.00 or more and that it is a difficult procedure to do for a common backyard mechanic with limited tools. I don't know if this is still true? A Mercedes would not be a car I would want to own....just not my style.

I still change the oil in my 2008 E-350 the old fashioned way. Takes a little longer than before with other cars. It takes 8.5 quarts of synthetic oil. I still have a stash of $2/quart Castrol 0w40 from years ago in the Autozone clearance days. So about $17 for the oil. I got some Mann filters from Rockauto a while back, lumped it in with some other stuff so shipping wasn't that bad, probably around $8 for the filter. So about $25 for the oil and filter for me. There's an under body panel though that takes a while to remove the 9 bolts and put back on. Plus the design of it is such that instead of coming out clean in the back, it comes out the side and splashes all over the place before it becomes a clean stream so I have two oil pans down there to catch the mess plus I spread newspaper everywhere to catch the oil that spills on the ground. Kind of a mess. On the plus side, I noticed a CV boot was ripped when I was down there changing the oil and just replaced the boot instead of the entire axle. The OEM axle can run around $1k and the aftermarket ones can cause a vibration when you pay just $100 for them.

And yeah, now that I've had one for about 6 years, I just wonder why I didn't buy one sooner. I like how you can get a knock off copy of the parts catalog and dealer repair manual online for about $8.50. I just think they're a good value used if you can find one with a lot of options. The major options on mine like the bixenons, keyless go, pano roof, parktronic, power trunk closer etc all still work. Although the passenger side keyless go door handle doesn't work anyone, probably around $200+ to replace the handle. But I'm not going to bother because I don't use that side.

 

[Wolf359]

As an example, a buddy leased a 2007 E350 through his company (he was the owner of that company, by the way) and he liked it so much, he bought it at lease end. That car has 150,000+ on it now. Looks new. Runs perfectly. Gets 30+ Mpg.

He drives it back and forth to DC several times a month. A superior driving experience and dynamic. A great car.

He has the annual service done at Mercedes of Virginia Beach. They give him a new E class loaner for the day while they change his oil, filters, etc. under Mercedes recommendations. To be fair, he and I worked through the M272 intake flap actuator failure a few months ago. We fixed the issue for an order of magnitude less $$ than the dealer. We used my STAR/XENTRY laptop to diagnose the problem, provide procedures and torque values for the work, and to clear the codes when done.

If he wanted to sell that car, I would buy it in a heartbeat. It’s just a great car.

I never get close to 30mpg on my 2008 E-350. Sometimes only around 16-18, but sometimes 20-24 if mostly highway. It's 4matic though.

Anyway, there's several ways to fix the flap without replacing the intake, but I think replacing the intake is the way to go. Pierburg is the OEM maker and they're around $600. Several youtube videos on how to do it. I'm sure the dealer would want more, around 2k. I thought about just replacing the lever or rods when they break, but it's really the flaps which are getting gummed up and eventually those will break off and cause engine damage which is why the only dealer fix is to replace the intake. I feel the lever/rod repairs are just short term band aid fixes just to save a little money.

I don't want to afford a $1500 set of tires every 20k miles. I don't want to pay $150 for an oil change. I don't want to pay $100 for wiper blades. Nor HAVE to take a vehicle to ANY dealer because everything is tied to a computer.

Those are dealer prices. A set of Michelin A/S 3+ are about $800 installed at Costco, good for about 45k. My oil changes are about $25 for me, but the local indy will do it for $20 in labor if you bring the oil/filter to them. I tried the Bosch OEM blades for $30, they were the same as the $3 surplus blades on Rockauto so I just do those now. I also have a cheaper scanner that does MB specific codes. There are Autel units out there that do it now for $50-$100, don't really feel the need to drop $600+ on a DAS/Xentry system yet. Only time I've really needed it before was to replace the steering angle sensor. The scanner tells you the specific error code, otherwise it could be a wheel speed sensor or a yaw sensor or something else. I've replaced struts, thermostats, control arms etc. without the need for it. Only time I've gone to the dealer outside of warranty was to update the firmware. No way to DIY that.