Mercedes, What's the Deal ??

[edyvw]

Are you sure that is only Toyota and not all dealers? I'm pretty sure I've heard scam stories from all dealers.

I'm not sure as I've been avoiding dealers ever since I bought... a VW. Word on the street was to never go there. I did once, to get some top off oil, just in case; they were content to sell me the wrong stuff. When I asked they said it was just fine (PD TDI so it needed 505.01, this was in 2004 so while we might have different opinions today that wasn't the case back then). But should I trash all VW dealers on the basis of one event 16 years ago?

Yeah, I probably should, since all Toyota's sludge up and all of 'em rot their frames. And all of their dealers charge $315 for a spare tire.

I am answering to post about $100 oil changes, which apparently are impossible for MB vehicles.
Your post shows typical response when it is Toyota, Honda etc. on this forum:
Toyota problem? Nah, suppliers, dealers, etc..
Posts by Hillbilly Delux shows that in perfect form. He just jumps from one assumption to another. It would be good to show us some example, but every response is just assumption, bcs. Mercedes and bcs. Toyota.

 

[supton]

Your post shows typical response when it is Toyota, Honda etc. on this forum:

Whatever. I've been very critical of Toyota lately, I've tried to be open to your suggestions about owning a German car next time, yet you attack me whenever you can. Bcs I own a Toyota. When I ask for TCO comparison you ignore me. I give you ample opportunity to show me how a German car will save me money, yet you blow me off.

Whatever.

 

[edyvw]

Whatever. I've been very critical of Toyota lately, I've tried to be open to your suggestions about owning a German car next time, yet you attack me whenever you can. Bcs I own a Toyota. When I ask for TCO comparison you ignore me. I give you ample opportunity to show me how a German car will save me money, yet you blow me off.

Whatever.

Who attacks you? I responded to typical assumption here. It is not even some story from cousins friend boyfriend, but just assumption.
You are the one who started with personal attacks about dealerships, and how I should use something else.
Also, I gave you ample evidence in other thread, but obviously anything Toyota is personal for you. It is not my fault Toyota sells donut tire for 315, and not my fault that obviously you found yourself in that post. Not sure why, as I never mentioned you.

 

[supton]

First, you claimed I gave the typical response. That is why I read it as--well, not attack but certainly a slight.

Second, what ample evidence? I pressed for TCO in that other thread and you said you didn't care what tires cost, you only run the best. Which wasn't very helpful... In that other thread you said you had one Toyota vehicle and it cost more than a BMW. On the basis of one vehicle Toyota is bad in your eyes. But I don't drive SUV's, so how does that experience help me pick a vehicle?

Here (in this thread) on the basis of your one Toyota doughnut tire now their dealers are scammy. That is what I'm pointing out. Ok fine, it wasn't your cousin's boyfriend's hairdresser's experience. But all the same: you are extrapolating your one experience to indite all dealers, no?

 

[supton]

I'll go a step further: if I'm being stereotypical owner of (fill in the blank) and not playing well with the other makes, what do I need to do differently? Should I just ignore when misinformation is posted against my make, or should I speak up when misinformation is spoken in general against any make? Is that the problem, that no one speaks up when misinformation is posted about the other guy--they only defend their own turf?

 

[edyvw]

I'll go a step further: if I'm being stereotypical owner of (fill in the blank) and not playing well with the other makes, what do I need to do differently? Should I just ignore when misinformation is posted against my make, or should I speak up when misinformation is spoken in general against any make? Is that the problem, that no one speaks up when misinformation is posted about the other guy--they only defend their own turf?

What misinformation? Your make? I told you this is personal for you bcs. you think any negative discussion is attack on your choice.
What misinformation? That they charge tire $315? Well, apparently MB charges upward of $100 oil changes, and tires on X5 last only 20k. So, keep up with discussion.

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

I am looking at 2017 Benz C 300 for 23K. Is Mercedes that good compared to other cars in the category? Why so expensive to fix? Thanks and stay safe

Here's my experience on the answer to this.

tl;dr version: I have an oldish Mercedes. Too many Mercedes and Audi owners are douches. Not most, but 5x more than other car brand owners. The best independent mechanics won't work on them for that reason.

Long version:

My wife has a 2002 SLK320. The OEM parts cost more than other Japanese and Korean brands (about 2-3x as much on average I'd say). As for the labor, some dealerships REALLY gouge on this. Call a low rated one on Yelp/Google reviews and ask what the labor is to replace the two upstream O2 sensors on a 2002 SLK320 - it took me 30 minutes to do both by myself; I did have the proper tools. I called for fun to get a quote just so I could brag to my wife how much I saved her - they wanted $600 in labor,$200 in parts. $600?!.

And it is hard to find a really well reviewed independent that will touch a Mercedes. I have two 5 star rated on Yelp mechanics with many reviews near me (I'm lucky) and they as a default policy refuse to work on them. The 4 star independant I had to use when the conduction plate shorted in the manual transmission (leading the car anti-theft crypto to go haywire and immobilize the car. You need the massive $$$ factory computer to reset that BS after fixing.) who specializes in Mercedes frankly charges a LOT for his work (but still less than a dealership), and the value priced 4 star mechanic shops aren't really qualified to work on a Benz, sadly. Unless its something very basic say like say shocks and struts. I'm on a friendly basis with both of these shop owners and they've confided it is because too many of the owners (not most, but probably 5x as many as average) are entitled snowflakes and will threaten to sue you at the drop of a hat if say their fuel pump goes out while you're just changing their oil and putting in new wheel bearings on their out of warranty ride. And even if they don't sue or even say anything about it they'll definitely give you a terrible online review. They both do make an exception for me but I'm just the exception that proves the rule. Audis are banned also for the same reason. I'll note they are both happy to work on BMWs (well not the 7 series).

So an anecdote only, but they're so expensive to fix from my (and combined many decades of two shops that total about 8 mechanics total) experience because there's too many bad apple owners of them, and the OEM parts are very expensive. On top of that some gouging dealers that know many owners won't shop around (or can't). And no independent mechanic will stick a non-OEM part in the car if you could get them to work on it because of fear of said bad apple owners, so its hard to save there.

So if you want to get the repair expenses to be less expensive I suggest one or more of the following:

1. fix some stuff yourself if you're inclined
2. make friends with your top rated local independent so he'll make an exception for you. Treat them like they're war veterans who have PTSD triggered by your Mercedes or Audi - be very calm and understanding. Preferably have them already doing work on hopefully other brand cars you bring them so are invested in the relationship. Also, if you can bring the (preferably OEM, non-OEM are another PTSD trigger lol) parts yourself. Be prepared to be patient with turn around times because they won't have an established relationship with a Benz or Audi dealership and will be the dealership's parts department lowest priority (they are competition). So don't be surprised when you have to wait 2 business days for the part to be shipped from elsewhere in the country because the dealership is passively aggressively sabotaging things (oops, we sent over the wrong part AGAIN? So so sorry.)
3. Pay for an extended transferable warranty that the dealer will accept (easy to get up to 120k miles nowadays). Sell the car at 115k miles to somebody like me.

 

[supton]

What misinformation? Your make? I told you this is personal for you bcs. you think any negative discussion is attack on your choice.
What misinformation? That they charge tire $315? Well, apparently MB charges upward of $100 oil changes, and tires on X5 last only 20k. So, keep up with discussion.

Ok, I'm trying. Last time I got tires from a dealer they were free. Our car came with 2 years free service and one set of free tires. How that correlates with a spare tire that costs $315... I have no idea. Is it comparing apples and oranges? The following year I bought a used vehicle from the dealer and it came with free inspections for life, a $50/year savings. Did that change my opinion of dealers? Nope, I still assiduously avoid them, I know they are not the cheapest nor the best.

[My guess on the free tires, Toyota knew the OEM tires would not last and many owners would be upset, so they figured it'd be cheaper to give freebies. I buy my tires elsewhere.]

Or are you stating that this is an MB bash thread, and that I should come up with datapoints about how bad the make is? Beats me, never owned one. I keep hearing about how good their diesels were, the ones from the 80's, but I am not sure I've even sat in a single MB in my life. But I do have a friend who hates them...

 

[edyvw]

Ok, I'm trying. Last time I got tires from a dealer they were free. Our car came with 2 years free service and one set of free tires. How that correlates with a spare tire that costs $315... I have no idea. Is it comparing apples and oranges? The following year I bought a used vehicle from the dealer and it came with free inspections for life, a $50/year savings. Did that change my opinion of dealers? Nope, I still assiduously avoid them, I know they are not the cheapest nor the best.

[My guess on the free tires, Toyota knew the OEM tires would not last and many owners would be upset, so they figured it'd be cheaper to give freebies. I buy my tires elsewhere.]

Or are you stating that this is an MB bash thread, and that I should come up with datapoints about how bad the make is? Beats me, never owned one. I keep hearing about how good their diesels were, the ones from the 80's, but I am not sure I've even sat in a single MB in my life. But I do have a friend who hates them...

OK, well...

 

[MCompact]

Supton, this is just my experience, but make of it what you will; I currently maintain every vehicle in my sig with the exception of my son's E90 328i. I currently set aside $400 per month to maintain all five of them. I own them all free and clear, so I'm keeping them in good shape spending $9.00 more per month than the average American's monthly used car payment. To me that's inexpensive in light of the pleasure I derive from those vehicles.
As always, YMMV...

 

[supton]

Looking at my budget for the year, I allotted $1,300 for repairs and maintenance, for a total of $9,200 for vehicle expenses. 3 paid off vehicles, total of about 55,000 miles, give or take. I forgot to add in the latest addition to the fleet--but due to covidation I went from 500-700 miles per week driving to maybe 50. So all my numbers are completely off now. With no plans to head back to work I have no idea anymore about vehicle expenses...

I will say it's great not having car payments. My bank account has never been higher... I can afford to buy tools and such but once money is spent, it's gone. So as time goes on I meter it out all the more carefully. Happiness will be when I'm financially independent--a goal that I wish I had picked up earlier in life now.

I will say, this thread (and the other one) had me rethinking vehicle choices earlier this week. It was the first time in 4 months that I hit the highway--and highway speeds--and I just don't remember my car handling things awfully! Made me long for my departed Jetta--that was a real highway cruiser--I can only imagine what a newer car would be like. Alas, I cannot justify changing up my fleet right now, and if/when covidation ends, I'll be right back to looking for the cheapest cost per mile.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Acura is actually European Honda, or it was some decade ago.

In the sense that they've drawn from their their European lineup, like with the European Accord being rebadged as the TSX, yes.

But as a brand, Acura was launched in the U.S./Canada, has been confined to a few select markets, and has never been sold in Europe.

Acura is very much an American brand, and the only instances of it ever having higher aspirations to challenge the upper level of the market is the NSX.

 

[edyvw]

In the sense that they've drawn from their their European lineup, like with the European Accord being rebadged as the TSX, yes.

But as a brand, Acura was launched in the U.S./Canada, has been confined to a few select markets, and has never been sold in Europe.

Acura is very much an American brand, and the only instances of it ever having higher aspirations to challenge the upper level of the market is the NSX.

Yeah, I understand what you saying. Just reminding that Acura is Honda in Europe. Acura Legend was Honda Legend in Europe.

 

[nthach]

Acura is very much an American brand, and the only instances of it ever having higher aspirations to challenge the upper level of the market is the NSX.

Acuras were originally JDM Hondas brought over stateside - for the exception of the NSX, Legend and Integra that kept their same names, the Vigor was the Accord Ascot and the TL/CL was the Inspire - a more luxurious US Accord. Oddly enough, our 7th/8th gen Accord became the Inspire in Asia(except in Thailand and Australia where it was still sold as an Accord) and there wasn't an JDM equivalent to the TL.

Honda wanted to bring Acura to China but that didn't happen. Honda is, IMO the most American of the Japanese automakers - despite the fact Toyota USA is headquartered in Texas. Ohio seems like their nerve center for R&D and they export more than they import.

 

[Gene K]

I think I'll stick to American stuff.. I have no idea what the donut spare cost because my truck came with a full size spare.

 

[Astro14]

I think I'll stick to American stuff.. I have no idea what the donut spare cost because my truck came with a full size spare.

My American-made Tundra did, too... and so did my German-made Mercedes - a ZR-rated Michelin on an alloy wheel.

Honestly, if you don’t turn your own wrenches, it’s a challenge to own an older high-performance car of any make, but especially a Mercedes. So many of them have been bodged/hacked that they become very expensive to get sorted out. Once sorted, they’re good cars.

For most folks considering Mercedes ownership, I would recommend a lease. You can get a nice car for a reasonable monthly cost. Leasing places the burden of cost and maintenance on Mercedes and provides stability for your budget.

A recent advertised deal on an E class was about $550/month ($5K down) For a really nice car.

https://www.mercedesbenzofvirginiab...irginia-2020-Mercedes-Benz-E-350-Sedan-363277

 

[cos]

NewtonPulsifer - excellent post!

 

[Danno]

My American-made Tundra did, too... and so did my German-made Mercedes - a ZR-rated Michelin on an alloy wheel.

Honestly, if you don’t turn your own wrenches, it’s a challenge to own an older high-performance car of any make, but especially a Mercedes. So many of them have been bodged/hacked that they become very expensive to get sorted out. Once sorted, they’re good cars.

For most folks considering Mercedes ownership, I would recommend a lease. You can get a nice car for a reasonable monthly cost. Leasing places the burden of cost and maintenance on Mercedes and provides stability for your budget.

A recent advertised deal on an E class was about $550/month ($5K down) For a really nice car.

https://www.mercedesbenzofvirginiab...irginia-2020-Mercedes-Benz-E-350-Sedan-363277

The model advertised is not on that list from the dealer. When you take the total amount financed with the least expensive model available, you're at about $800 a month, plus taxes.
Forever.
With the turn in stress every 3 years.

 

[Astro14]

The model advertised is not on that list from the dealer. When you take the total amount financed with the least expensive model available, you're at about $800 a month, plus taxes.
Forever.
With the turn in stress every 3 years.

“Turn in stress” - never heard of that...

Beats the “unexpected repair stress” when that repair can easily top $1,000.

Sparkplug change on my V-12, just a sparkplug change, was quoted at $1,800. That’s required maintenance (admittedly, my car is an exception, but a high performance car can be very, very expensive to own, both for maintenance, and repair, if you’re paying for someone else to do it.) which I did for about $300.

I don’t lease, but it provides financial predictability. If your business pays it, it provides a great pre-tax way to drive a nice car.

For a lot of folks, who lack the ability, or desire, to turn their own wrenches, leasing can make sense.

My neighbor drives a GLS450, his wife drives an Audi Q7. Both brand new. Insurance and maintenance rolled into the lease that their business pays for. They drive new cars, paid for with pre-tax money, and all they do is put in gas.

Never once talked about “turn in stress”...I think he actually likes making the deal...and that’s part of the reason folks don’t do well with leases. They look at the payment, not the deal. Residual, miles, money factor, and purchase price are all negotiable. Just like buying a car, you can negotiate. Most people don’t and they end paying way too much.

 

[MCompact]

“Turn in stress” - never heard of that...

...and that’s part of the reason folks don’t do well with leases. They look at the payment, not the deal. Residual, miles, money factor, and purchase price are all negotiable. Just like buying a car, you can negotiate. Most people don’t and they end paying way too much.

I leased a Volvo 740 Turbo in 1991- I came out ahead because it was an open end lease. The only other vehicle I leased was a 2016 i3 REx when I worked at BMW: 24 month, 20k miles $400 "down"- $100 a month- not too bad as the car stickered for $50k.