Media Is Lying About Chinese EVs—And Here's the Proof

[Torrid]

I wouldn’t give Elon a red cent. I’ll have to pinch my nose closed and consider Chinese. The Chinese can make nice things… but QC and IP is another thing.

We already have Chinese EVs on the road in the US. It’s a BYD bus. They’re all over LA(LA Metro and Long Beach Transit have the biggest deployment of them in the US), there’s a few in the Bay Area and elsewhere. They’re just assembled in the US(Lancaster, CA) using Chinese bodies to meet Buy America requirements.

If you want to ignore the US work force because of Elon, that's on you.

 

[andrew_j]

My Bolt (euro uber service) a few times in BYD EV over in Portugal says Chinese are there. Well built nice comfortable vehicles…

 

[SC Maintenance]

There really is not much of our auto industry left.
General Motors, long time survivor so far.

Other than that, the majority of cars on the road came from a foreign corporation.

Yeah, we got Ford and Tesla, but they pretty much focus on a niche part of the market

Many decades ago, the Japanese did it to our auto industry and it hasn’t recovered since.

If China ever makes it to our coast you can bet the same will happen with one exception this time. Since China is a communist country maybe they will have a rough time. I just don’t know

GM makes trucks in Canada and Mexico, Buicks in China and there only affordable SUV in S Korea. I am unsure how that’s different than Toyota making Camry, Highlander, Sienna, RAV4, Corolla, Sequoia, and Tundra in USA?

Honest question?

 

[BISCUT]

It's interesting isn't it? The Ford CEO was blown away by them so I'm kind of confused. Ford CEO also seems like a moron.

I wouldn't trust Ford for anything but non-EV trucks.

 

[BISCUT]

Not necessarily. Manufacturing in China is cheaper. They also have the world’s largest robot installed base. By a long shot.

I used to be 100% pro American manufacturing. Until a few months ago they all lined up at the trough for waivers. Since they don’t seem to care about on-shoring I don’t anymore either.

Respectfully, this has changed and remains moving in the wrong direction. Well, depends upon who's vantage point is taken. China does not have the large number of youthful workers willing to move from the country to the manufacturing cities for low wages. They simply do not have the birth rate required for worker replacement. They grew a substantial middle class due to manufacturing profits and with that growth came demand for higher wages.

Future of "cheap" labor manufacturing is central Mexico. Sustainable birth rates and cheap labor costs. Key overtime is whether manufacturers will develop a reliable robotic infrastructure and whether they can keep the working class from growing paychecks too quickly.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Respectfully, this has changed and remains moving in the wrong direction. Well, depends upon who's vantage point is taken. China does not have the large number of youthful workers willing to move from the country to the manufacturing cities for low wages. They simply do not have the birth rate required for worker replacement. They grew a substantial middle class due to manufacturing profits and with that growth came demand for higher wages.

Future of "cheap" labor manufacturing is central Mexico. Sustainable birth rates and cheap labor costs. Key overtime is whether manufacturers will develop a reliable robotic infrastructure and whether they can keep the working class from growing paychecks too quickly.

Respectfully - in the industry. Your correct on labor except auto assembly is very automated.

Also Mexican manufacturing is full and if you don’t have a footprint there already it’s going to be hard. There birth rate is well below replacement in Mexico as well. You probably have 20 years left in Mexico just due to the lag.

You can manufacture without people. The issue is robots don’t consume. So you must export.

Fact remains China is already built for this paradigm. USA is not.

 

[BISCUT]

Respectfully - in the industry. Your correct on labor except auto assembly is very automated.

Also Mexican manufacturing is full and if you don’t have a footprint there already it’s going to be hard. There birth rate is well below replacement in Mexico as well. You probably have 20 years left in Mexico just due to the lag.

You can manufacture without people. The issue is robots don’t consume. So you must export.

Fact remains China is already built for this paradigm. USA is not.

You're correct! Yet, thus far, they haven't been able to capitalize on the scale they once produced at the lowest price point. All indications are (never know for sure as they lie!) demographics are irreversible; automation is the key to their survival.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You're correct! Yet, thus far, they haven't been able to capitalize on the scale they once produced at the lowest price point. All indications are (never know for sure as they lie!) demographics are irreversible; automation is the key to their survival.

Correct.

Demographics there are far worse than they will say. The provinces lie about births because they get funding for schools and infrastructure based on population. China has no net immigration and very little within the country. Once they come off the farm they stay put mostly. So even the CCP doesn’t know.

So they must export. Which is why the CCP will subsidize to take over industries globally.

 

[Trav]

Yet many of the anti Chinese product naysayers have no problem whatsoever going down to Home Depot and buying the latest TTI/Milwaukee power tool then going on a forum or you tube and bragging about how great they are. It just seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

[buster]

Yet many of the anti Chinese product naysayers have no problem whatsoever going down to Home Depot and buying the latest TTI/Milwaukee power tool then going on a forum or you tube and bragging about how great they are. It just seems a bit hypocritical to me.

It's hypocritical and selective. Look at how many junk cars the Big 3 have made over the years.

I think China makes a wide range of goods that vary in quality from cheap Walmart junk to higher end. I also think over time they're improving.

 

[KrisZ]

It’s equally hypocritical to be now in favor of doing business with a communist regime when just few decades ago anything communist was seen as enemy, which was the correct view, unlike today.

 

[SC Maintenance]

China makes about 90% of all permanent magnets as well as most other rare earths.

Teslas has promised to go back to AC induction motors but there much less efficient.

So the reality is most EV’s are CCP subsidized anyway. So why not just buy the whole car from them?

 

[SC Maintenance]

It’s equally hypocritical to be now in favor of doing business with a communist regime when just few decades ago anything communist was seen as enemy, which was the correct view, unlike today.

They gave up there right to invoke this ideal When we sucked China into the Western world in 71 and gave them WTO status in 2001.

I agree it’s hypocritical. But you have to identify the hypocrites.

 

[alarmguy]

Here's what know for sure.....
...but remember American $$$ built China).

and their war machine

 

[KrisZ]

They gave up there right to invoke this ideal When we sucked China into the Western world in 71 and gave them WTO status in 2001.

I agree it’s hypocritical. But you have to identify the hypocrites.

Not sure who’s “they”.
I grew up in a communist scumbag system and will never be in support of anything related to it, doesn’t matter which club they are members of.

 

[Trav]

It’s equally hypocritical to be now in favor of doing business with a communist regime when just few decades ago anything communist was seen as enemy, which was the correct view, unlike today.

No it is not. Manufacturers could not wait to move to China and produce their products to sell to western consumers leaving people little or in some cases no alternative but to buy products made in China. Western consumers are the victim of these companies and their insatiable greed not China.

 

[KrisZ]

No it is not. Manufacturers could not wait to move to China and produce their products to sell to western consumers leaving people little or in some cases no alternative but to buy products made in China. Western consumers are the victim of these companies and their insatiable greed not China.

Oh I get that, corporations are only loyal to the dollar. But this forum is full of individuals not corporations I would think, and the amount of China sympathy is simply frightening.

It’s one thing to buy China made product because there are no other alternatives, but it’s quite another to welcome it, like I see with EVs. Lots of people simply cannot wait until Chinese EVs get here.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not sure who’s “they”.
I grew up in a communist scumbag system and will never be in support of anything related to it, doesn’t matter which club they are members of.

You’re mixing metaphors.

It was ok for CEO’s to enrich themselves by hollowing out the rust belt.

But now I must give my dollars to GM or Tesla (corporations, both who do business in China) rather than BYD?

This is not about supporting anything American. GM and Tesla are global corps.

 

[alarmguy]

GM makes trucks in Canada and Mexico, Buicks in China and there only affordable SUV in S Korea. I am unsure how that’s different than Toyota making Camry, Highlander, Sienna, RAV4, Corolla, Sequoia, and Tundra in USA?

Honest question?

Corporate profits go to a foreign company increasing the wealth and dominance of the foreign company in the USA, vs USA companies increasing their dominance overseas is my feeling. What would the USA look like if foreign companies owned all the production and workers in the USA?
Some may not care. I would rather be the stronger country and own production here and in their countries. But I think foolish to think that innovation and invention being handed off to foreign companies helps the wealth of the USA> vs making foreign countries economies and wealth stronger

IN case im not being clear (I know I ramble on sometimes fighting to use the right words) The strong countries that dominate the world enables better lives for its people. You lose that and one day Americans will lose that edge .. and I wont be around but we are moving that direction.

Another example, since we are talking about China. How does one feel about China buying up our land and food production in the USA?
Some not to happy. They already own Smithfield Foods (correction Hong Kong owns Smithfield). The largest pork processor in the USA. ITs a tiny example as far as I am concerned about foreign companies owning USA production, vs the USA owing their production.
An example of another country in control.
https://www.ainvest.com/news/smithf...-tariff-uncertainty-250110106f7fe8b91a1ee0e6/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithfield_Foods

 

[alarmguy]

It’s equally hypocritical to be now in favor of doing business with a communist regime when just few decades ago anything communist was seen as enemy, which was the correct view, unlike today.

Most likely the only thing we ever agreed on