MC FL820s vs gold PureOne PL24651 for winter

Hi again everyone, I was amongst those who took advantage of the PureOne rebate promos and got 4 air filters and 6 oil filters (PL24651) for my Grand Marquis. I still have a couple Motorcraft oil filters leftover (the tried and true FL820s). With the winter coming up, I was wondering which of the two would have the bigger advantage in dry startup protection. I do know the ADBVs for both are in the base end. (Didn't the old PureOne blues have them in the dome?) Plus, I will be using QSUD 0w20 from the $4 Big Lots sale to go along with the filter that is recommended. This could be a good one for the Ford modular V8 folks. Thanks again everybody.
 
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Originally Posted By: mercuryblues
I do know the ADBVs for both are in the base end. (Didn't the old PureOne blues have them in the dome?)
ADBVs are always at the base end ... I think you're thinking of the bypass valve. Both have a silicone ADBV, so either would be good in cold weather use IMO.
 
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I don't believe the new Pureones have a thread end bypass either? I could be wrong though as i haven't used a P1 in over 2 years as i hate the paint.
 
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Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
I don't believe the new Pureones have a thread end bypass either? I could be wrong though as i haven't used a P1 in over 2 years as i hate the paint.
None that I've seen. All Purolators (that have a bypass valve) seem to have a dome end bypass valve.
 
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Of course, both are made by Purolator (820s made by Purolator to Ford specification). After I bought my FX4, I also bought a P1 and compared it to the 820s. In the end, I chose the 820s over the Purolator for a few reasons:
  • Warranty - I did not want Ford to have a reason not to honor it
  • Price - without a special deal, the 820s is cheaper than the P1
  • Difference in construction (do not know if it matters) - not sure how to describe it, but the 820s has a "nozzle" that is about 1" long starting at the threads and going into the filter. The P1 is "open" past the threads
Hope this helps!
 
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Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
[*]Difference in construction (do not know if it matters) - not sure how to describe it, but the 820s has a "nozzle" that is about 1" long starting at the threads and going into the filter. The P1 is "open" past the threads[/list] Hope this helps!
That is the base end bypass valve you're seeing.
 
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Originally Posted By: mercuryblues
Hi again everyone, I was amongst those who took advantage of the PureOne rebate promos and got 4 air filters and 6 oil filters (PL24651) for my Grand Marquis. I still have a couple Motorcraft oil filters leftover (the tried and true FL820s). With the winter coming up, I was wondering which of the two would have the bigger advantage in dry startup protection. I do know the ADBVs for both are in the base end. (Didn't the old PureOne blues have them in the dome?) Plus, I will be using QSUD 0w20 from the $4 Big Lots sale to go along with the filter that is recommended. This could be a good one for the Ford modular V8 folks. Thanks again everybody.
Is there such a thing as Ford Modular V8 folks?
 

mercuryblues

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Originally Posted By: steve20
Originally Posted By: mercuryblues
Hi again everyone, I was amongst those who took advantage of the PureOne rebate promos and got 4 air filters and 6 oil filters (PL24651) for my Grand Marquis. I still have a couple Motorcraft oil filters leftover (the tried and true FL820s). With the winter coming up, I was wondering which of the two would have the bigger advantage in dry startup protection. I do know the ADBVs for both are in the base end. (Didn't the old PureOne blues have them in the dome?) Plus, I will be using QSUD 0w20 from the $4 Big Lots sale to go along with the filter that is recommended. This could be a good one for the Ford modular V8 folks. Thanks again everybody.
Is there such a thing as Ford Modular V8 folks?
Yeah, I knew I was going to get razzed on for that after I put the question in. grin Another good one on my part for mixing up the ADBV for the bypass, guess that's what I get for being a bit of a noob. bop tongue2 Oh well, nothing wrong with a little self-depreciating comic relief anyway. So unless I got it wrong, I'm guessing the best strategy would be to use the Motorcrafts for winter and my PureOne supply for summer? After that I'll stick with the MC year-round. Thanks as always everyone for all your input. Very well appreciated.
 
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Originally Posted By: steve20
Is there such a thing as Ford Modular V8 folks?
Yes, all the guys doing Modular swaps in Foxes, Broncos, etc., most of the NMRA Factory Stock and Pure Street racers, the thousands of 600+ rwhp Cobras/GT500s running around on the streets, and most/many new 5.0 and Boss 302 owners could probably be called "Modular V8 folks".
 
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There are a number of us "Ford Modular V8 folks" here at BITOG. Welcome to the fold! My opinion as one of that crowd is that as far as winter performance goes, like the post above, I don't see a difference... both have silicon ADBV valves and that's the major winter design feature. FWIW, I am now running a P1 on my 5.4L in preference to a FL820S because of the higher level of filtration. The base end bypass is indeed a preferable construction element but somewhat overvalued IMO. In valuing and weighing each of those characteristics, my conclusion is that finer filtration is a benefit that pays every day. The base end bypass is harder to value. Yes, in theory, if a bypass event occurs it's less likely contaminants on the dirty side of the filter will be flushed into the system. The questions to ask are: 1) How often do bypass events occur? 2) Under what circumstances is a bypass event likely to occur. 3) Why do almost every other filter manufactuer (included the very top end,best, most whizbang and highly rated) filters still use a dome end bypass? My answers: 1) Almost never. 2) Most likely on a cold start, or first startup after an oil change, and in either case, the event is momentary. In such an event, the likelihood of much contamination being flushed off the filter is minimal. 3) Because they don't see it as a necessary feature... for the reasons above and likely others. In my perfect world, you would be able to get an filter with a base end bypass and the general high construction quality of an FL820S,but with the media of an P1 at the cost of a P1. Since I have to choose between features, again, I choose the feature that pays daily, the better filtration. PS and FYI- I finally have all the pieces now to install a Racor ABS bypass system on my 5.4L. It will have a 3um absolute filter in it. I have one more P1 in my stash to use and after that, I will probably switch back to FL820S.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
There are a number of us "Ford Modular V8 folks" here at BITOG. Welcome to the fold! My opinion as one of that crowd is that as far as winter performance goes, like the post above, I don't see a difference... both have silicon ADBV valves and that's the major winter design feature. FWIW, I am now running a P1 on my 5.4L in preference to a FL820S because of the higher level of filtration. The base end bypass is indeed a preferable construction element but somewhat overvalued IMO. In valuing and weighing each of those characteristics, my conclusion is that finer filtration is a benefit that pays every day. The base end bypass is harder to value. Yes, in theory, if a bypass event occurs it's less likely contaminants on the dirty side of the filter will be flushed into the system. The questions to ask are: 1) How often do bypass events occur? 2) Under what circumstances is a bypass event likely to occur. 3) Why do almost every other filter manufactuer (included the very top end,best, most whizbang and highly rated) filters still use a dome end bypass? My answers: 1) Almost never. 2) Most likely on a cold start, or first startup after an oil change, and in either case, the event is momentary. In such an event, the likelihood of much contamination being flushed off the filter is minimal. 3) Because they don't see it as a necessary feature... for the reasons above and likely others. In my perfect world, you would be able to get an filter with a base end bypass and the general high construction quality of an FL820S,but with the media of an P1 at the cost of a P1. Since I have to choose between features, again, I choose the feature that pays daily, the better filtration. PS and FYI- I finally have all the pieces now to install a Racor ABS bypass system on my 5.4L. It will have a 3um absolute filter in it. I have one more P1 in my stash to use and after that, I will probably switch back to FL820S.
You'd be better off with the FL820s year round. As for the frequency of oil filter bypass mode, 1. It happens far more often than people realize. From charts I have analyzed from my work at SWRI, most filters will go into pressure relief mode when the temperature drops below 40F @ 2 - 3 gpm (5w-30) with a clean/fresh oil filter. For some vehicles (especially, VCT types) the oil filter will go into bypass right off the idle at these low temperatures and will most definitely bypass during cold engine start. 2. According to Fram, the pressure relief valve is expected to open anywhere from 20k to 30k per OCI, mostly from cold start-up. 3. Ford claims that contaminants too large to embed into the oil filter media and oil suspended wear causing particles will settle out of suspension and fall against the oil filter shell. Upon start-up, these wear causing contaminants are immediately bypassed into the engine. A portion of the cold-startup wear is attributed to these contaminants. It is cheaper to make a filter with dome-side bypass. As far as I know, only Ford claims it is important to have it on the threaded in. I think it does matter in terms of engine longevity. But I also believe the OEMs have a calculated wear rate for their engine designs under recommended maintenance to achieve a target engine life. From the reports I have read regarding OEM engine testing, OEMs tend to stop testing at an equivalent of 150k miles. But with almost everything engineered, there is a margin of safety; so a well maintained engine should exceed 150K miles. I believe Ford's FL820s is the best option for modular engines.
 
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modV8- Interesting info. More desired... specifically info on any published info on the frequency of bypass (if it's public domain) and the Fram references. Would really like to update my knowledge and fill up my files with more stuff. Are there studies available that show how much in the way of contamination is likely to go into the lubrication system during a bypass event? Finally, relating to why the FL820S is "better" is it just because of he bypass location or some other reason?
 
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Originally Posted By: modularv8
You'd be better off with the FL820s year round. As for the frequency of oil filter bypass mode, 1. It happens far more often than people realize. From charts I have analyzed from my work at SWRI, most filters will go into bypass pressure relief mode when the temperature drops below 40F @ 2 - 3 gpm (5w-30) with a clean/fresh oil filter.
I'm curious on how lab tests are conducted in order to monitor the bypass valve opening? Most engines will not put out 2~3 GPM at idle speeds. Obviously, letting an engine warm up for 5 min when the weather is cold is probably a good thing to help reduce filter bypass from occurring when driving starts.
Originally Posted By: modularv8
2. According to Fram, the pressure relief valve is expected to open anywhere from 20k to 30k per OCI, mostly from cold start-up.
Assuming a 5000 mile OCI, that would mean the bypass valve would be opening 4 to 6 times every mile. Not sure I'm buying into that one. wink
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Both have a silicone ADBV, so either would be good in cold weather use IMO.
+1 I see no advantage regarding dry start either way, either will work just fine in the winter. As for the non asked question, thread end vs dome end bypass. As previously pointed out, some of the highest quality and efficient extended oci filters like Amsoil EaO and others use dome end bypass. Apparently they don't think it makes a big difference.
 
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I have to believe that Ford does in fact think the threaded-end bypass makes a difference, at least in their own engines, otherwise why would they continue to spec it in the Motorcraft line? AMSOIL needs to sell their filters for many different makes of cars and I doubt they (or anyone else) are going to make a special version just for Ford products.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
modV8- Interesting info. More desired... specifically info on any published info on the frequency of bypass (if it's public domain) and the Fram references. Would really like to update my knowledge and fill up my files with more stuff. Are there studies available that show how much in the way of contamination is likely to go into the lubrication system during a bypass event? Finally, relating to why the FL820S is "better" is it just because of he bypass location or some other reason?
^It seems like bypass location is the primary reason to me, but I don't mean to answer for modularv8. I do remember Fram's video on YouTube(or was it their site?) saying that during the use of one of their oil filters, the bypass valve has to open and close quite often, can't recall the number though. Here is the Fram reference on video, the comment is at 1:06 into the video:
*Note, it appears to be claimed near that the bypass valve will open over the LIFE of the vehicle, anywhere from 25k-30k times according to the rep in the presentation.
 
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Thanks for that. I did a search and found it just a few minutes before I saw your post. I'm still in data aquisition mode here but... FILTER GUY, ooohhhh Filter Guy?????
 
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