MC FL-500s 9,245 Miles [Cut Open]

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Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't recall ever seeing a glued seam failure on an MC filter. They may not look as pretty as a metal crimp but they work just fine.

Several folks reported an issue in this thread. This link is to a page with a working picture: http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1164379&fpart=4

From 2007? I have cut open more than a few FL-820s filters and have not seen any that appear like the ones on that site. Even my 15K filter looked like it was nearly new. If there was an issue back then, it seems to have been corrected.
 
Yep its 2007 but it was interesting to see.

I saw your thread with the 15k mile filter and it looked superb. The pleats were straight as an arrow.

But in 2012 you had an FL820S that you were uncomfortable running beyond 7.5k miles.

I just had one whose media was super stiff after 8700 miles and an endcap fell off. It tore with minimal pressure. Somebody else reported a tear in a sub 5000 mile interval.

So I'm not convinced that Motorcraft is immune to Purolators quality issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
But in 2012 you had an FL820S that you were uncomfortable running beyond 7.5k miles.

True; but we live and learn, eh? Despite my mislaid fears, I have yet to have one fail in any way. I did have an end cap come off of the OEM on the Explorer, but the end was full of potting material and as long as assembled under pressure from the leaf spring there was no harm done. Since my OCIs are past 10K in my FX4, I simply use a filter that is designed for it--the Fram Ultra. However, the Explorer will continue to use FL-500s filters until I see a valid reason to change.
 
I ran an FL400S for 15k miles on dino oil; upon disection everything looked fine.

I see this FL500 as just an extension of a similar product; expect similar results.

Exellent job! Post up those UOAs when you get them, please.
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Is a MC equal to a P1 then?

I think it falls between a Purolator Classic and a P1 with regards to filtering performance (93.7% @ 20 microns), but is on par with the P1 when quality and construction is compared.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't recall ever seeing a glued seam failure on an MC filter. They may not look as pretty as a metal crimp but they work just fine.


Several folks reported an issue in this thread. This link is to a page with a working picture:

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1164379&fpart=4



I see two folks (and one set of pictures) reporting issues. the OP's issue was that he was able to tear apart the filter at the seam (the seam had not opened itself up, keep that in mind).

The second individual, who revived the thread two months later, reported that his filter appears to have not been glued on the line, or was glued improperly. I would call that a defect.

that said, that was also a thread from 2007. And, based on the posts in that thread, this was not common. Which echoes what we see with this filter on this board: It holds up well. Every filter manufacturer is going to make a defective filter from time to time. We've seen it with all brands on here. But by and large the FL-820S holds up very well and doesn't have any sort of inherent design flaw. I've cut open close to an entire case of them (I have not posted them all on here), which is probably a larger set of data points than most.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Are you guys seeing different pictures than I am? Cause that doesn't look too hot...

Picture #5 - that black area sure looks like a tear or missing media to me.


It's either glue that has darkened, or a buildup of deposits.

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Picture #7 - that bottom front media piece sure looks like a tear to me.


Again, it's either glue that has darkened, or a buildup of deposits.

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Last pic - that middle seam sure looks like a tear waiting to happen to me...


Not seeing it. The seam here is glued, and they pretty much all look like that. That filter held up extremely well.
 
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?

It can go 15K, but the question is should it? Although I used it for 15K, I feel more comfortable with capping it at 10K. For me, the Fram Ultra is my "go-to" filter for anything above 10K. The security of the wire backed media is the driving factor in that choice.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Might want to look at it on a big screen (I am looking at it on a 27" display). It is another chunk of glue/potting, not a tear
smile.gif



Looked at it on the iMac (also 27") and if that's the seam pleat (it looks to be), it's just a poor job sealing it.

Looks like it held up but is poor QA with the potting and adhesive mess.

I'm not bashing, as I use Motorcrafts on my Fords. Just seems they could/should do better.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?

It can go 15K, but the question is should it? Although I used it for 15K, I feel more comfortable with capping it at 10K. For me, the Fram Ultra is my "go-to" filter for anything above 10K. The security of the wire backed media is the driving factor in that choice.

+1....IMO...the ULTRAS wire backing prevents a lot of issues that cause filters to fail on longer OCI's. In addition its efficiency is superior than most, if not all filters out there. And lastly, the cost is reasonable (under $9 at WM).
 
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?
[quote

For superior effeiciency. The ULTRA is 99% at 20 microns.
 
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?


For superior effeiciency. The ULTRA is 99% at 20 microns.


Then I guess it is up to the individual to determine whether that extra ~5% efficiency is worth the price difference.

And of course there are other filters with relatively similar performance at a similar price point to the Ultra. The EaO is 98.7% @ 20 microns, and the Purolator Synthetic and the Royal Purple are both 99% @ 25 microns (I find it interesting that they don't list at 20 microns.....?
21.gif
)

I can attest to the EaO having excellent construction as well.

Not dogging the Ultra BTW, I think it is an excellent value, perhaps a better value than the EaO given their current price points, FWIW.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This must be the only filter for less than 4 bucks that can go 15k
If so,then why would anyone spend 2 to 3 times that amount on anything else?

It can go 15K, but the question is should it? Although I used it for 15K, I feel more comfortable with capping it at 10K. For me, the Fram Ultra is my "go-to" filter for anything above 10K. The security of the wire backed media is the driving factor in that choice.


I agree. Fram and I presume other oil filter manufacturers test filters beyond their rated life. The Ultra should in fact go beyond 15k miles.
 
Too many folks believe that the lifespan of a filter is a fixed asset, based solely on its own attributes. That is a false presumption. Construction and holding capacity and efficiency all play into the decision. But that's not the entire storyline.

The general state of cleanliness and contribution of contamination rate from the engine are a MAJOR player here. A reasonably clean engine, that runs clean, simply isn't going to task any filter greatly. So in many circumstances, 15k miles on even a EG Fram or Classic Puro isn't a stretch. A MC filter can easily run 15k miles on a clean engine, as most can.

Also, construction will play into this, but perhaps not a greatly as some would believe. ADBV material may often reduce rattle at start up, during really long FCIs, but I have yet to see any clear evidence that a failing ADBV actually shifts wear rates; the UOAs simply don't back this up. Wear rates FALL as the OCI goes up, indicating that even a failing ADBV has little effect except on the ears. If you have a UOA (preferrably more than one) that disproves this statement, then by all means, bring it forth! Otherwise, except the facts over your auditory-bias and get over it.

The filter makers have to rate their filters for the consideration of worst case condition keeping in mind their warranty concerns. Hence, they presume a filthy engine that is poorly maintained, and then take into account just how much risk they want to accept for warranty purposes. BTW - despite what most think, limited warranties are about protecting the MAKER, not the USER of products.

Any good engine can easily run 15k miles on a "normal" filter.
Any poor engine can easily overload a "premium" filter in 5k miles.

You guys need to quit looking at only one-half of the equation; quit prophesizing about the filter as if it's the ONLY contributor. The filter REACTS to the overall environment; it does not create the running conditions.

Agreed and admittedly, the relative state of ANY filter will be a reaction to the overall capacity of the filter. I do understand and commit to this. Even on a dirty engine, a premium filter will likely last longer. It's all relative. But that is my point here; there is not just one set duration for FCI for every conceiveable condition; they are all unique.

Quit acting like any filter discussed has only one FCI lifespan, as if it's a fixed constant. Rather, understand it's a variable that plays into the overall O/FCI decision, and it's reactive to the conditions present.

Some of you get this; most don't.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The general state of cleanliness and contribution of contamination rate from the engine are a MAJOR player here. A reasonably clean engine, that runs clean, simply isn't going to task any filter greatly. So in many circumstances, 15k miles on even a EG Fram or Classic Puro isn't a stretch. A MC filter can easily run 15k miles on a clean engine, as most can.

I agree and although it is more of an emotional process (nothing to prove it is truly a problem), I still entertain the same concerns I did prior to the P1 debacle with using a non-wire backed filter past 10K. My worst fears were realized when the P1's started showing up with tears at much lesser FCIs. A design problem with the P1? Yes, most likely, but the "flex" factor of non-wired backed media running for so long seems to be "asking for it".

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Agreed and admittedly, the relative state of ANY filter will be a reaction to the overall capacity of the filter. I do understand and commit to this. Even on a dirty engine, a premium filter will likely last longer. It's all relative. But that is my point here; there is not just one set duration for FCI for every conceivable condition; they are all unique.

Agreed; and in my case, I am not worried about capacity in the slightest because both of my engines are in great shape. Ford undoubtedly engineered the filter to coincide with the iOLM, because to do otherwise would be folly on their part. However, are there many OLMs that lean towards >10K OCIs?
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Agreed; and in my case, I am not worried about capacity in the slightest because both of my engines are in great shape. Ford undoubtedly engineered the filter to coincide with the iOLM, because to do otherwise would be folly on their part. However, are there many OLMs that lean towards >10K OCIs?


Sure - I believe yours (F150) and mine in the SHO are the older, non Intelligent ones that are basically a mileage counter. In the SHO it's pretty darn close to 7500 miles. I have been following that and 7500 seems to be around the magic #.

I believe, according to Ford that the iOLM was not in full production until the 2011 model year:
https://owner.ford.com/Storage/CommonImages/images/IOLM FAQ.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Sure - I believe yours (F150) and mine in the SHO are the older, non Intelligent ones that are basically a mileage counter. In the SHO it's pretty darn close to 7500 miles. I have been following that and 7500 seems to be around the magic #.

I believe, according to Ford that the iOLM was not in full production until the 2011 model year:
https://owner.ford.com/Storage/CommonImages/images/IOLM FAQ.pdf

Quite right, it is 7500 for my FX4, with its sans "i" OLM, but I was thinking about my Explorer (and others like it with true iOLM) which was at 8% with 9245 miles.
 
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