MC FL-400S, Problem?

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BlueOvalFitter

BlueOvalFitter

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My friend changed the oil and filter on my F150 this AM. When he went to remove the oil filter (MC-FL400S) very little oil came out of the nipple and/or filter (less than an 1/8 of a cup). At every OCI quite a bit of oil comes out as soon as the seal is broke from the oil filter mounting base. I have never seen this happen before. Jokingly, he stated that the ADBV must be working very well. I told him there should have been some oil overflowing like it does always. My oil filter is at about an 7 to 8 o'clock position on the engine.
Has anyone ever seen this happen before? I plan on cutting the filter open to see if there are any defects in the filter.
21.gif

Below is a pic of an 4.2 engine showing the oil filter location.
acpw8o.jpg
 
On my old 02 F150 with the same engine, there was always a bunch of oil that would drip from the engine once the filter was loosened. I remember it well because the oil would always drip onto the front cross member and I'd have to clean it up.

Did the filter itself have a lot of oil in the media? Hopefully there isn't a problem with oil pressure or a clog somewhere.
 
Are you sugesting the ADBV is defective? If so how can oil drain back when the filter is nearly vertical?
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Are you sugesting the ADBV is defective? If so how can oil drain back when the filter is nearly vertical?

Do you think I was born yesterday? Did I state that the ADBV was defective in any way? My friend made a "JOKE" about the ADBV and I was merely stating that some oil "SHOULD" have come out from what was in the center tube. SMH!
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: tig1
Are you sugesting the ADBV is defective? If so how can oil drain back when the filter is nearly vertical?

Do you think I was born yesterday? Did I state that the ADBV was defective in any way? My friend made a "JOKE" about the ADBV and I was merely stating that some oil "SHOULD" have come out from what was in the center tube. SMH!
smirk.gif



The only way oil could drain out of the filter is for it to drain past the ADBV. Since the filter is nearly vertical, how can this filter have less oil in it than others? After all you did imply the filter may have a problem. Obvious answer is, no problem with this filter in that regard.
 
I think it is quite possible BlueOvalFitter does have a filter problem. If he does, shame on Motorcraft and Purolator.

Consider the ADBV is supposed to keep the oil from reverse flowing through the filter back into the sump and therefore there should be a nice quantity of oil above the filter in the oil galleries. If the ADBV is defective somehow, then oil may very well drain back through the filter to the sump over night. The filter that is mostly vertical would still have oil in it but when removing it, very little oil would leak out from the filter until it is inverted.

I like to change oil when hot so I might not see a marginal ADBV. I plan to change oil cold after the vehicle sits overnight just to check this function out on my next oil change.

I say cut the filter open and see what you can see and publish the results.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
How can oil flow up hill?


Same way it does when a siphon happens. Even though this filter is mounted at ~45 deg with base up, IF the filter is still above the level of the oil in the sump, and if the ADBV was leaking, oil could still be pushed backwards (by gravity on the oil above the filter in the galleries) and back into the sump.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
How can oil flow up hill?


I was wondering the same thing. Unlike other engine designs, the oil can't completely drain from the filter because of two uphill paths.
I've got this engine family in three vehicles that I drive. Two belong to me (3.8 engine) and the third is in my employer-owned work truck (4.2 engine) that I use every day.
At the very least, there should be a filter full of oil. Something is fishy.....
And before somebody says "put on an 8A/FL1A variant", there isn't enough room to install one.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
How can oil flow up hill?


Same way it does when a siphon happens. Even though this filter is mounted at ~45 deg with base up, IF the filter is still above the level of the oil in the sump, and if the ADBV was leaking, oil could still be pushed backwards (by gravity on the oil above the filter in the galleries) and back into the sump.

Pure speculation. I'm not buying that at all. We know that any filter that is vertical(base plate up) doesn't need a ADBV.
 
Last edited:
The oil filter on my car points mostly downward. I thought there was hardly any oil in there, then I cut it open and there was a lot of oil in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The oil filter on my car points mostly downward. I thought there was hardly any oil in there, then I cut it open and there was a lot of oil in there.


Your ADBV is working.
 
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I think it is quite possible BlueOvalFitter does have a filter problem. If he does, shame on Motorcraft and Purolator.

Consider the ADBV is supposed to keep the oil from reverse flowing through the filter back into the sump and therefore there should be a nice quantity of oil above the filter in the oil galleries. If the ADBV is defective somehow, then oil may very well drain back through the filter to the sump over night. The filter that is mostly vertical would still have oil in it but when removing it, very little oil would leak out from the filter until it is inverted.

I like to change oil when hot so I might not see a marginal ADBV. I plan to change oil cold after the vehicle sits overnight just to check this function out on my next oil change.

I say cut the filter open and see what you can see and publish the results.

Common man? Maybe read the whole initial post.
 
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I think it is quite possible BlueOvalFitter does have a filter problem. If he does, shame on Motorcraft and Purolator.

Consider the ADBV is supposed to keep the oil from reverse flowing through the filter back into the sump and therefore there should be a nice quantity of oil above the filter in the oil galleries. If the ADBV is defective somehow, then oil may very well drain back through the filter to the sump over night. The filter that is mostly vertical would still have oil in it but when removing it, very little oil would leak out from the filter until it is inverted.

I like to change oil when hot so I might not see a marginal ADBV. I plan to change oil cold after the vehicle sits overnight just to check this function out on my next oil change.

I say cut the filter open and see what you can see and publish the results.

Common man? Maybe read the whole initial post.

I read the whole post. On a Ranger 4L V6 and a Motorcraft filter with a silicone ADBV, I get a lot of oil when first loosening the filter. It creates a mess. This one mounts mostly dome end down at an angle.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
However this article explains why a filter in the vertical position does not need a ADBV. In fact, some filter don't have a ADBV because of the position of the filter requirement on certain engines. Here's the link.

http://en.filtron.eu/site.php/site/menu?cat=79


They don't talk about when the filter is mounted vertically (base up) ABOVE the sump's oil level. If the filter is mounted above the oil level in the sump, any oil above that level will try to drain back to the sump due to gravity (ie, 'head pressure'). So even a filter that is vertical with base up still needs and ADBV.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
However this article explains why a filter in the vertical position does not need a ADBV. In fact, some filter don't have a ADBV because of the position of the filter requirement on certain engines. Here's the link.

http://en.filtron.eu/site.php/site/menu?cat=79


They don't talk about when the filter is mounted vertically (base up) ABOVE the sump's oil level. If the filter is mounted above the oil level in the sump, any oil above that level will try to drain back to the sump due to gravity (ie, 'head pressure'). So even a filter that is vertical with base up still needs and ADBV.


No it won't. They didn't offer that explanation because it's not relevant.
 
Last edited:
ZeeOSix - If ADBV function is impaired, how much oil is siphoned vs just drains back through the filter and pump? Even though the oil pump is positive displacement, the gears can not be a perfect fit.
 
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