I don't know, lying under oath wasn't a crime in 1998.
Martha Stewart found GUILTY!
- Thread starter Last_Z
- Start date
- Status
Martha runs (er, did run) a publicly traded company, which makes trading stocks very complicated. I assume that if she was not running a publicly traded company, she would not have been charged.
Shannow, Martha did not lie under oath as she never testified or deposed (to my knowledge).
WJC, on the other hand, did lie in a deposition. He was small potatoes, however, as he only ran the most powerful country on earth, not a media company.
WJC, on the other hand, did lie in a deposition. He was small potatoes, however, as he only ran the most powerful country on earth, not a media company.
Is no one going to say "Its a Good Thing".
GM,
I wasn't there, but when a jury asks the judge if X and Y evidence is reason enough to send someone to jail.....AND the judge says YES!.....well, it seems obvious to me there was enough evidence of her guilt as well as that other guy, regarless of what kind of message the jury wanted to send out. I do find it surprising that she was found guilty. I don't have anything against the woman, but she committed a crime, so she should go to jail. If it was us......bubba would be eating our corn bread already.
Just saw on TV that the federal guidelines dictate a sentence of 15 to 30 months. Good conduct can save her some time in the slammer, BUT, she still has to do 85% of her sentence, which no matter what she gets, she'll do almost a year......minimum!!
Also, as someone else mentioned above.....her attitude after the verdict will not help her.....once again; saw this guy on TV talking about a points system in which if the convict showed sincere regret, the judge could be a little leneant and subtract 2 points from her sentence.....How much is 2 points....I don't know; but it has to help.
All of this for $50k, which at best, is a couple of drops in her huge $$$$$ bucket. She even made the mistake of rolling the dice and challenge the feds and go to court. Obviously she lost! Not only did she lose her freedom, but she has lost something like $500,000,000.......that's HALF A BIL!!!
As far as the comment made by juror #8.......he said he was offended by the defense's very short closing arguments. He stated something like...."we gave you 6 weeks of our lives and you take us for grated with a 15 minute closing argument?!"
At this moment, Martha has got to be asking for her legal fees back. She knew she was guilty and so did her lawyer. Her lawyer adviced her NOT to take the stand because he knew the feds could extract some stuff out of her under oath. It seems now, not taking the stand was a huge mistake.....a mistake which will cost Martha dearly.
I think this is a victory in many ways. This verdict sends out the following message:
-White collar crime WILL be punished.
-You mess with people's money (people like us), and you are going to jail.
-It doesn't matter how much money you have...you are not above the law.
-You can hire the most expensive, most arrogant and smartest lawyer.....that's not gonna save you if you are truly guilty.
On the positive side, Martha will soon (hopefully) enjoy the company of Michael Jackson, Ken Lay and the other blood sucking leaches from World Com and Enron, and Scott Peterson.
That prison is gonna have it all!!.....good taste and beautiful window treatments, financial advisors, communications people, a singer and an unscrupulous killer!
Rick
Shannow, WJC was being hunted. It seved no purpose other than to distract him from his job. Martha thought she was being hunted and tried to protect a friend in Waksal who gave her a heads up which was wrong on his part, but not hers. I have a lot of empathy for people who try to protect their friends if no violent crime has been committed.
I guess that's a character defect on my part.
I guess that's a character defect on my part.
GM,
Your ideal is noble, but we are talking about a crime here in which she took part AND benefitted from. Maybe your compassion would turn to anger if you lost, say, $50,000 after you bought the shares she had just dumped after getting a tip.
I agree with you though, she shouldn't get an extreme sentence; but something between 6 and 12 months seems fair to me.
I don't believe that Martha Stewart was an insider with regard to Imclone. She was friends with the CEO. There is no evidence that her sale was a result of a conversation with Waksal.
Again, she was convicted of obstructing justice and lying, not of insider trading.
Some people are just happy to see her brought down, then little guys can be brought down as well without the evidence to support a conviction.
BTW, listen to no one who would have you buy MSO, it's in the toilet for good.
[ March 06, 2004, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: GROUCHO MARX ]
Again, she was convicted of obstructing justice and lying, not of insider trading.
Some people are just happy to see her brought down, then little guys can be brought down as well without the evidence to support a conviction.
BTW, listen to no one who would have you buy MSO, it's in the toilet for good.
[ March 06, 2004, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: GROUCHO MARX ]
I don't know if shes guilty or not, but one thing for sure what she did didn't impact as many people as the S&L scandel, or the dotcom bubble burst, or the enron or worldcom. What she did may of cost a broker or the person that bought that stock some money. The government spent more money going after her than she made. There are other dirt bags that need locking away much more than she does. When the truth about the ripoff mutual fund game comes out there will be alot of dirt bags in line for tar and feathers. These bastards make money no matter how the fund does and they trade off the books and after hours and we the buyers see Xdividends and pay taxes.
If your actually PO'd that she was found guilty??
Please lobby your senator to legalize insider trading.
Capitilism and the free market must be based on fairness.
That is the only way America can let any little guy turn into a mult-millionaire. (unlike Europe for example)
Insider trading is whit collar crime analgous to murder in my opinion.
How many Joe Blow innocents out there were bent over backwards with thier hands tied to thier ankles after Imclone, Enron, WorldCom, Saving and Loan busted.
So what if she talks sweet in her show. Stewart was tipped off and had insider information that unfairly enabled her to liquify her assets and run.
I do not know about you, but even though I was not a juror justice prevailed.
Stewart with all her millions could not "purchase" justice.
After seeing OJ walk....well thats a different topic lol
Please lobby your senator to legalize insider trading.
Capitilism and the free market must be based on fairness.
That is the only way America can let any little guy turn into a mult-millionaire. (unlike Europe for example)
Insider trading is whit collar crime analgous to murder in my opinion.
How many Joe Blow innocents out there were bent over backwards with thier hands tied to thier ankles after Imclone, Enron, WorldCom, Saving and Loan busted.
So what if she talks sweet in her show. Stewart was tipped off and had insider information that unfairly enabled her to liquify her assets and run.
I do not know about you, but even though I was not a juror justice prevailed.
Stewart with all her millions could not "purchase" justice.
After seeing OJ walk....well thats a different topic lol
Z, correct me if I'm wrong, but she was convicted of lying to investigators (really tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt) not with insider trading.
If her broker told her that Waksal was selling shares and that he though she should do so as well, she did nothing wrong. She probably lied about the stop loss order which was never in place, but no one lost money due to her actions versus Imclone. She did not doctor financial statements or issue misleading statements to investors.
I don't particularly care for Ms. Stewart, but I believe this was prosecutors running amok for a celebrity head on a post.
I can say with 95% certainty that if they looked in the bowels of Wall Street they would find real criminals such as the ones trading mutual funds after the markets closed. These people did cost Joe six pack loads of gita backs.
[ March 06, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: GROUCHO MARX ]
If her broker told her that Waksal was selling shares and that he though she should do so as well, she did nothing wrong. She probably lied about the stop loss order which was never in place, but no one lost money due to her actions versus Imclone. She did not doctor financial statements or issue misleading statements to investors.
I don't particularly care for Ms. Stewart, but I believe this was prosecutors running amok for a celebrity head on a post.
I can say with 95% certainty that if they looked in the bowels of Wall Street they would find real criminals such as the ones trading mutual funds after the markets closed. These people did cost Joe six pack loads of gita backs.
[ March 06, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: GROUCHO MARX ]
it seems to me that any trading performed (with or without disclosure) by those within the company is "insider trading," of which most of the people i know in industry would be guilty.
i can think of at least one time when i dumped stock knowing that management's actions would lead to a huge devaluation. sure enough, our stock lost about 2/3 of its value as the new management prepped the company for sale.
it's pretty easy to make decisions about certain stocks (say automotive) if you work within the field.
i can think of at least one time when i dumped stock knowing that management's actions would lead to a huge devaluation. sure enough, our stock lost about 2/3 of its value as the new management prepped the company for sale.
it's pretty easy to make decisions about certain stocks (say automotive) if you work within the field.
The insider trading case was dropped but she was found guilty of covering up this non crime? (obstruction of justice, ...). What a waste of time.
I think like everyone else, and it is depressing to see high roller executives cooking the books and living large, but that is enough about Congress.
Martha is such an irrelevant figure in the big scheme of things, but on balance I would rather see corporate misdeeds prosecuted than swept under the rug for years until they implode (Enron, Global Crossing, etc.).
We need to keep going after the big fish. If Martha was worth all this time and effort, we are failing.
Keith.
I think like everyone else, and it is depressing to see high roller executives cooking the books and living large, but that is enough about Congress.
Martha is such an irrelevant figure in the big scheme of things, but on balance I would rather see corporate misdeeds prosecuted than swept under the rug for years until they implode (Enron, Global Crossing, etc.).
We need to keep going after the big fish. If Martha was worth all this time and effort, we are failing.
Keith.
Oh yes. Another $$$$ contributing "friend of Ole Bill and Hill" bites the dust. Seems to be a pattern any more. If you're a "friend" of Bill$Hill you seem to end up "deceased" or in prison. Of course he had the most "ethical" administration ever
. Too bad for Martha that Janet Reno isn't the AG. If she was they'd be having a parade down 5th Ave. for her. Of course right after she made the "appropriate donation" to the Clintons
. It pains me to say this but considering the degree of the crime I think a HUGE $$$$$ penalty will hurt her more than jail time. Besides we need the jail space to incarcerate real criminal like the Clintons who sold our country's defenses to the Red Chinese for money. And let Osama go when he was offered to Bill Clinton by Sudan!
Whimsey
Whimsey
"I think she's guilty but it's too bad she's going to jail and Hillary Clinton is still walking around free after her cattle futures trades."
Is that anything like the time when, after owning it for several years, Bush sold $848,560 of Harken Energy stock just before a devastating earnings report was made public? Forgot about that one, huh? Oh, yeah...can't forget that Bush nickname for his best buddy, not to mention his biggest campaign contributor down at ol' Enron. That's right, "Kenny Boy!"
[ March 07, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
Is that anything like the time when, after owning it for several years, Bush sold $848,560 of Harken Energy stock just before a devastating earnings report was made public? Forgot about that one, huh? Oh, yeah...can't forget that Bush nickname for his best buddy, not to mention his biggest campaign contributor down at ol' Enron. That's right, "Kenny Boy!"
[ March 07, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
- Status
Similar threads
