04 Toyota Camry UOA

[bully]

Here is my UOA report for my-wife's 04 toyota Camry. We bought the car new on 1/01/04. She uses the car hauling our 3 children around town, with one or two trips (30-40 miles) on the highway a week. She also warms the car up (5-10 minutes) on most mornings her in northern Massachusetts October through March. I changed Dino oil and filter at 500 miles and put in 5-w30 Dino plus Napa gold filter. I then changed over to Amsoil at 1500 miles on
04/01/04. I change full flow every six months and By pass filter every 12 months. I also use tri guard oil analysis program. I sent in first uoa after 1000 miles. Then suppose to test every 12 months after. I did 2nd uoa on 6/03/05. I
only waited 6 months for last uoa because I was concerned about water contamination.

I am interested in everyone's opinions. I would also like to hear from experts.Unfortunately cannot change the way wife uses car.(short trips
and long idling)


2004 Toyota Camry-4cyl 2AZ-FE
Amsoil series 2000 SAE 0W-30 oil
Amsoil Bmk 13 dual remote oil filtration
kit SDF 15 full flow oil filter
and a BE-90 By pass oil filter
K-N High flow air filter # 33-2260

code:

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Date 5/01/04 6/03/05 1/10/06

Mileage 2500 12675 19041

Aluminum 5 11 5

Chromium 1 4 0

Iron 4 33 50

Copper 6 18 13

Lead 0 10 5

Tin 0 5 0

Molybdenum 0 0 0

Nickel 0 0 0

Manganese 0 0 0

Silver 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0

Potassium n/a n/a n/a

Boron 81 106 102

Silicon 51 64 53

Sodium 0 11 5

Calcium 2441 2475 2470

Magnesium 840 883 870

Phosphorus 1200 1220 1216

Zinc 1328 1359 1352

Barium 0 0 0

Vis@ 100*C 9.7 11.7 12.4

Flashpoint n/a n/a n/a

Fuel 1.0 1.0 2.6

Antifreeze Neg Neg Neg

Water 0.05 0.11 0.17

Insolubles n/a n/a n/a

TBN n/a n/a n/a

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[ February 27, 2006, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Bill in Utah]

You need to take your text and take it out of the code tables.

As far as your oil, you are on the same oil since 1,500 miles?

Bye Bye 5 year/60000 mile Warrenty if so.

How much does it cost to change the filter every 6 months? For the filter and oil?

You could be changing the oil and filter every 5k 6mo and getting the same wear for less money and even more keep the warrenty in place.

Sorry if you have been changing it, I just can not see where you have...

The SI is way too high. Check the filter and box and I'd put in a paper filter in there.

Maybe have Terry check this out and see what he suggests!

Take care, Bill

PS: Your entry is messing up the replies... Hopefully Tony can fix that...

 

[bully]

how do i have terry check this out??

 

[Bill in Utah]

quote:

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how do i have terry check this out??

---

Terrys web site is --> Dyson Analysis

He is worth the $ to have him check out and suggest what to do. He knows whats up with these.

His Services found a very small Anti-freeze leak in my 3 year old Taurus. The warrenty is 3 years / 36k miles.

I had 61,000 miles at the 3 year old point...

With his services and my excellent recording keeping and being able to show Ford that I maintained the engine BETTER than Ford recommended got Ford to pay for $1100 of a $1200 Head Gasket job! Out of warrenty!

Even though the repair could not be traced to oil, Ford asked for and I was able to show them the type of oil ( they took all of my receipts and checked them to a UPC code book to find out if I used correct TYPE of oil ) and that I changed it out before their OCI.

Since a overheating cond could be shown that the if the owner did not change the oil properly and made the engine overheat, it's not their fault.

You may not have a oil related warrenty claim, but the Car mfg will use what ever they can to void the claim.

Look up Terry, He will give you the scoop.

Take care, Bill

PS: Thanks for getting the text correct!

[ February 17, 2006, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Bill in Utah ]

 

[m2200b]

I'd go back to your factory filter if you didn't throw it out as it probably had 20-30K left. You don't say when you went to K&N but that looks bad from start to now. Best I can say is the air box system isn't clipped and screwed together very well.

 

[Ken2]

1) Use that air filter for a frisbee for the dog. Buy a top quality Toyota-Denso air filter. You have way to much silicon in the oil, likely coming through the air filter. The way your wife drives, she likely never has the throttle wide open. Even if the K&N filter passes more air at full throttle (which I don't believe), she isn't using it.

2) Sell the dual-bypass assembly on eBay. Go back to original with your choice of oil changed every 5000 miles during the warranty period and probably after that. Use the excellent Toyota-Denso oil filters, about $3 each from mail order sources.

3) Whatever your goal was with the expensive filtration, you're not getting it. Toyota engines (except for the few sludge monsters) live for several hundred thousand miles with ordinary care. The cellulose bypass filter element absorbs a small amount of water, but it seems to already have all it can handle. The water accumulation during your wife's winter driving shows that the oil needs to be changed.

4) You might even change conventional 5W-30 oil every 2500 miles during her short, cool winter driving season.


Ken

 

[Winston]

I am surprised everyone is so anti-bypass filtration and anti-lone OCI. Having said that, it is time to change your oil, and you need to take the car out for a few highway miles now and then. It is too thick, it is full of water and fuel, and get rid of the K&N if you really care about longevity of your engine.

 

[bully]

I called Amsoil, had them check numbers.They called back said everything ok continueto use oil. Asked them about high silicon. Was told it was high and could be from leak in air intake,and from gaskets, and sealants in new engine.I then asked why they did not tell me this in report? He didnt know.I then asked about high iron.He said looked ok. their limit for iron is 150-200 ppm.We talked about a lot of other things on test,and car.Asked him if I had warranty issues, will these numbers hold up? He said they stand by ther tests. no problem. Would like to hear from other Amsoil sponsers out there,About my uoa.

I took Bills advice. And called Terry. He reviewed my uoa. and Iam know following his advice to a T.

I all so called Blackstone.Had good talk with them.In a nutshell, basically agreed with Terry. He did say,my engines are known for high silicon numbers when they are new.And takes 4-5 oil changes to lower silicon numbers. I have taken complete air intake system apart.everything looks fine.All so sprayed starting fluid all around itake system with engine running,ran fine.Anybody got any ideas on how to find air leak in air intake?
We bought a Japanese car, cause got sick of american crap.I just want the car to last.Saw Amsoil web site, and made sense to me.I did not know about this site till couple aweeks a go.
Again this is all in a nutshell.Like to hear from others.

Sorry about spelling and grammar. BULLY

 

[Al]

Ditch the K&N. Here is a case where a 5K Oil Change interval with a $1.50/quart of Havoline would have been better.

 

[Winston]

Everyone here will say do what Terry says. While I don't want you to reveal Terry's advice, at least you could tell us if you are going to change the oil now.

If you want to do super long drains with a bypass system, all the power to you. From what I have seen here, ppm metals per mile definately goes down with super long OCI's. I personally would not want to do a super long drain with an engine so young. Also, why did you not do a TBN? For long drains that is an important number to know?

Also, warming the car up is a bad idea. Get in and drive and it will warm up quicker. Just drive gently for a little while.

 

[bully]

Winston
I have taken out the by pass. And gone back to dino oil.Will change out at 5000 miles,do uoa and have terry check go from there.
I did not have TBN done because ther was no mention of it in tri-guard kits Ihave gotten from Amsoil I see on there web site it is included in kit . But it wasnt in any of mine.Plus,I didnt even know whatTBN was till Ifound this site.
Again everything I read on Amsoil site made sense to me. It just seemed to be the best way to go for my car.

 

[bully]

I dont want to seem like Iam knocking Amsoil.But I was worried from the start doing this, still am..... Would still like to hear from some Amsoil Guys.

BULLY

 

[Blue_Goose]

Is that Newburyport MA?

 

[bully]

Yes I am from Newburyport Mass.

 

[Blue_Goose]

Ok thought so.....nice area, been there many times.


Goose

 

[LubeOiler]

I have a 03 Camry since 03 and had a hard time getting the wear numbers down to what they should be with the TLC I have given it.I feel these engines need more oil changes during breakin, having said that I am just the last year going 7500 OCI. and we have 33K on it now.I used the Amsoil ASL and went to GC the last two changes so follow what Terry tells you and you will get back on track Too.

 

[TomJones76]

bully,

Very interesting UOA here.
Thanks for posting!

First, let's look at your 100C viscosity:
9.7---->11.7---->12.4
0.05---->0.11---->0.17
That's some rather substantial thickening.
Your oil was supposed to start at 11.2 CST @ 100C [1], so your initial result is puzzling. Historically Amsoil blends towards the THICK end of a viscosity range, not the bottom. Heck, 9.2 CST @ 100C is the top end of 20-weight.
Your oil is now at 12.4, while 40-weight begins at... 12.5.
That oil has gone from thin 30-weight to an inch away from 40-weight. I know some Amsoil formulas are engineered to thicken in use, but that scares me. On that basis, I'd say dump the oil, though on textbook criterion, your oil's thickening by itself isn't QUITE reaching the automatic condemnation point.
Next, let's look at your water contamination.
You've had the following values:
0.05---->0.11---->0.17
My math shows that car accumulating 0.01% of H20 per 1,000 miles. A conservative condemnation limit is .20. The highest I've seen is .30.
Based on that, I'd expect this oil to reach a conservative limit in 3,000 miles from last sample date and the less conservative .30 limit in 13,000 miles. If you split the difference, figure water will condemn this oil in about 8,000 miles.
Next, take your fuel contamination.
1.0---->1.0---->2.6
You're at 2.6%. This is actually the single most statistically abnormal part of your sample. You can go through three dozen UOA on this board without finding numbers that high. Gasoline and motor oil do not play nice together. Blackstone says it should be under 2.0%. Detroit Diesel says 2.5% tops. Based on that, it's time for an oil change.
Other remarks: Your additive levels are holding up nicely. That earns some brownie points for Amsoil. That iron level is a little high for a Toyota, and that kinda' worries me. If this was a small-block Chevy it would be normal. Your silicon is downright LUDICROUS. Most people want numbers under 20. Nearly everyone would agree that above 30 is bad. I agree with Ken2 about your air filter. I suspect your silicon will level out nicely once you put in a regular filter.
Once again, thanks for posting. Data like yours is PRICELESS in its ability to help me raise my understanding of what happens "When oil goes wild".
Hmmm. When oil goes wild. Don't think that video would sell as well as the other ones did.

[1] https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tso.aspx
[2] Interesting discussion of oil condemnation limts: http://www.natrib.com/publications/appnotes/app20.php

 

[Pablo]

#1 - I actually missed this report. I am sorry for that. No excuses, but the title:
"04 Toyota Camry UOA"
Did not get my attention. I must ask, what did your dealer have to say?

#2) The oil has 17,500 miles on it, right? I will not deny that your Fe is high, however it's not like your engine is in ruination or anything. The other metals look OK. The oil has like 1.5+ years on it, correct (20 months?)?

#3) Fuel, water and Si are doing nothing good for you. This is simply NOT an application for a K&N, it is NOT an application for extending beyond 6 months, let alone 1 year....wow 18+ months = HOLY MOLEY!!

#4) I simply will say the oil held up pretty well considering the age. It didn't thicken out of control. (I don't understand the starting vis - was this fresh oil or a sample at 1000 miles?) I wish I could have been your dealer and started you off correctly. I do NOT recommend starting a new engine on extended OCI's - neither does Amsoil. I would not have recommended the 0W-30. I would not have sold you a BMK-13. IF you want a remote by-pass filter, just get a stand alone bypass. I would have said 6 months MAX based on driving habits.

#5)Again your engine is fine. Just start fresh and do some short change intervals.

 

[TomJones76]

Pablo:
I agree 100% with what you said.
My natural curiosity forces me to ask something.
You would not have recommended the 0W-30.
What would you have recommended? The XL 7500 series?

 

[Pablo]

Yes the XL for sure or possibly the ASL 5W-30.