Marques reviews a Chinese EV

[JeffKeryk]

A key reason I bought the '18 Model 3 Mid Range (I did not need another car) was the reopening and staff rehiring of the Fremont factory.

At its peak, NUMMI had about 6,000 workers, today Tesla employes more than 25,000 worker locally. Fremont is California's largest mfg facility and the #1 vehicle factory in America. Workers get full medical, dental, and vision coverage, plus paid parental leave.

I salute and support that.

 

[CKN]

I'd still rather have any Tesla model over this just over manufacturing location alone. Performance wise it's right up my alley and exactly why I bought a Model Y Performance. I just can't see buying one no matter how great it is when there's an American company to support assembled by Americans. That's no hate directed at a Chinese product, it's just being a responsible consumer supporting those that will spend their money in the US just as I do. I really like the product Tesla makes so that also comes into play.

Some do not wish to patronage companies for certain reasons. It's nice to have choices.

I have seen some body gaps on Teslas-it's not pretty.

 

[Torrid]

Some do not wish to patronage companies for certain reasons. It's nice to have choices.

I have seen some body gaps on Teslas-it's not pretty.

Those body gaps are a 5 year old problem... Even then that's not enough to choose a foreign product over Tesla. I'm even against Elon's politics, so against all odds I still buy Tesla.

 

[E365]

This is part of the Chinese government’s $250,000,000,000+ plan to buy the global car industry. Too bad the US just surrendered and is too afraid to compete with the Chinese. A plan to compete was in place but it was recently destroyed.

 

[edyvw]

I mean, I don’t like Tesla, but I am not sure there is debate here.

 

[Cressida]

View attachment 313952

Off topic on the above picture: This brings back some good memories. My wife and I just by chance happened to book that hotel at the very left bottom in 2024 to be close to the San Jose airport. Unbeknown to us that it was across the interstate from this huge plant until we got to the room and looked out the window to see the large Tesla signage on the front of the building. I quickly made the connection that this was also the location were our daughters Pontiac Vibe had been made in 2005.

One memory not so pleasant was this hotel had two elevators, one on each end. When we got there only one was working. The next morning the other elevator located near the lobby also stopped working just as we were ready to leave the hotel. We had to carry our bags down all the stairs to the parking lot.

 

[KrisZ]

Funny how people look at Elons politics yet totally ignore China politics. Mean tweets vs 60 million killed, hmm tough choice

 

[jghall00]

Funny how people look at Elons politics yet totally ignore China politics. Mean tweets vs 60 million killed, hmm tough choice

Not a binary choice. They can suck at the same time.

 

[Cujet]

I think the idea that China can't make anything of high quality is a dated myth. With that said, support Tesla instead.

Chinese quality can be superb, world's best. The opposite remains wildly true too. China floods the market with low quality, poorly made products that use terrible base materials.

Just try purchasing an ignition coil or 2hp electric motor madeinchina and see if you get copper wiring... Or enameled aluminum with copper ends to fool the consumer.

What about dog food and dog treats from China? Many years of trouble there too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'd still rather have any Tesla model over this just over manufacturing location alone. Performance wise it's right up my alley and exactly why I bought a Model Y Performance. I just can't see buying one no matter how great it is when there's an American company to support assembled by Americans. That's no hate directed at a Chinese product, it's just being a responsible consumer supporting those that will spend their money in the US just as I do. I really like the product Tesla makes so that also comes into play.

I wouldn't buy this model either. If I wanted a upscale EV BMW will be making X5 EV in Plant Spartanburg shortly. That would be my upscale choice, based on manufacturing location.

My point was why compare vs this particular model which is also expensive. Tesla only makes fairly upscale priced EV's. The only one trying to make a lower cost unit is GM, and the Bolt is much more expensive than comparable Chinese built product.

If the Chinese can subsidize my prescription drugs and laptop, why not my economy car? I am constantly told that we can't make laptops and prescription drugs as cheap as the Chinese. Clearly not economy EV's either?

 

[jghall00]

If the Chinese can subsidize my prescription drugs and laptop, why not my economy car? I am constantly told that we can't make laptops and prescription drugs as cheap as the Chinese. Clearly not economy EV's either?

China subsidizes its automakers and keeps its currency suppressed. That's a large part of the reason for its pricing advantage.

China Trade Surplus Hit 1 Trillion

Chinese exports impacting poorer countries

 

[SC Maintenance]

China subsidizes its automakers and keeps its currency suppressed. That's a large part of the reason for its pricing advantage.

China Trade Surplus Hit 1 Trillion

Chinese exports impacting poorer countries

They subsidize. Federal reserve / treasury also suppresses USD by printing it to the tune of $35 Trillion so far. US puts up trade barriers on certain things, and subsidized US EV's until very recently.

However, the same forces if true are what make your laptop and prescription drugs so cheap. But no one complains about those?

So what is special about small EV?

 

[jghall00]

They subsidize. Federal reserve / treasury also suppresses USD by printing it to the tune of $35 Trillion so far. US puts up trade barriers on certain things, and subsidized US EV's until very recently.

However, the same forces if true are what make your laptop and prescription drugs so cheap. But no one complains about those?

So what is special about small EV?

The printing press does depress U.S. currency, but not sure how that compares to China's manipulation of the renminbi. According to some reports, China's EV subsidy was double the U.S. subsidy. As a consumer, I wish the countries could simply compete on a level playing field, as I would like to have more choices.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The printing press does depress U.S. currency, but not sure how that compares to China's manipulation of the renminbi.

All Fiat currencies are manipulated. China prints more, but you can't even really use it outside of China. US workers supported Bretton Woods / US reserve status by sending their jobs overseas to support wealthy CEO's and maintain US Hegemony. Its a circular argument - all are guilty. So on to the next.

According to some reports, China's EV subsidy was double the U.S. subsidy.

Also true for laptop computers and prescription drugs - which was my point.

As a consumer, I wish the countries could simply compete on a level playing field, as I would like to have more choices.

Global manufacturers put rust belt workers out of work 30 years ago mainly because they didn't have to follow any enviro laws nor make any payroll tax or healthcare contribution. But there is no will to change it. No one wants to pay more.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Off topic on the above picture: This brings back some good memories. My wife and I just by chance happened to book that hotel at the very left bottom in 2024 to be close to the San Jose airport. Unbeknown to us that it was across the interstate from this huge plant until we got to the room and looked out the window to see the large Tesla signage on the front of the building. I quickly made the connection that this was also the location were our daughters Pontiac Vibe had been made in 2005.

One memory not so pleasant was this hotel had two elevators, one on each end. When we got there only one was working. The next morning the other elevator located near the lobby also stopped working just as we were ready to leave the hotel. We had to carry our bags down all the stairs to the parking lot.

I've had 4 vehicles made at that plant. Our 1965 442 was purchased by wifey's father, a PhD Psychologist who was looking for a family car in 1965. My beloved 1993 Toyota 4wd strippie PU with the mighty 22RE. The 2 Teslas.

Additionally, I worked at Lam Research near that hotel for years.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't know how he got his hand on the Xiaomi, but that brand is reputable for cutting corner to the point of unsafe and even the Chinese knows they catch fire and self driving down the river sometimes, significantly more than other more "reputable" Chinese brand like BYD and NIO. Some caught them using non automotive grade chips causing crashes within warranty etc.

The company started as a source things cheap build them cheap battery charger business, not a quality product business. I won't trust my life on them even if I trust many Chinese engineering companies like DJI and BYD.

 

[PandaBear]

China subsidizes its automakers and keeps its currency suppressed. That's a large part of the reason for its pricing advantage.

China Trade Surplus Hit 1 Trillion

Chinese exports impacting poorer countries

On the contrary actually. Due to their real estate bubble collapsing they are trying to prevent their RMB from free falling right now.

Why do you think they are buying so much gold? Why do you think there is a withdraw limit on their own people inside China? Why do you think the black market smuggling rate to convert RMB in China to USD in a foreign country cost 20% service fee to the launderers?

Many of their exports are really just to break even and move money out of China. Unfair sure, but it is more of a money collapse prevention issue instead of intentionally trying to tank their own currency.

 

[CKN]

I don't know how he got his hand on the Xiaomi, but that brand is reputable for cutting corner to the point of unsafe and even the Chinese knows they catch fire and self driving down the river sometimes, significantly more than other more "reputable" Chinese brand like BYD and NIO. Some caught them using non automotive grade chips causing crashes within warranty etc.

The company started as a source things cheap build them cheap battery charger business, not a quality product business. I won't trust my life on them even if I trust many Chinese engineering companies like DJI and BYD.

It's hard to argue with BYD's success. They are in 112 countries and 6 continents. They dwarf Tesla in global sales. They rank 91st in the Fortune Global 500.

They would have the EV market cornered in the U.S. -if not for "circumstances".

 

[KrisZ]

I don't know how he got his hand on the Xiaomi, but that brand is reputable for cutting corner to the point of unsafe and even the Chinese knows they catch fire and self driving down the river sometimes, significantly more than other more "reputable" Chinese brand like BYD and NIO. Some caught them using non automotive grade chips causing crashes within warranty etc.

The company started as a source things cheap build them cheap battery charger business, not a quality product business. I won't trust my life on them even if I trust many Chinese engineering companies like DJI and BYD.

Likely shilling for them. China pays a lot of influences to "review' their stuff or come and visit the country and praise it.

 

[PandaBear]

Likely shilling for them. China pays a lot of influences to "review' their stuff or come and visit the country and praise it.

Maybe, I have followed Marques for a while and do think he has the integrity to call out things for what they are. Obviously nobody work for free so he must have gotten paid one way or another. As long as his work is accurate I am fine with it.

Problem with Xiaomi though is they ship something different from what they promised. The car you buy from them will be different than the one they send reviewers and influencers.