Mandatory vehicle inspections - non political

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No safety/emissions checked where I live. Too bad as people drive very unsafe cars. If I follow a ghetto car, more often than not exhaust stink is unbearable! I bet that cat converters are stripped away on those cars for money or maybe to save some on gas.
Those are big old gas guzzlers, mind you.
 
In New Zealand we have had mandatory 6 montly inspections called a Warrant of Fitness (WoF)since at least the 1930's,maybe even longer.But it's a lot more involved these days...

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/

This is what I do for a job...I do other things,but if they can they will feed me inspections all day,about 12 on a good day.We have no emission testing,just a smoke test,and a noise test if I think it may be a bit too loud.These days it has grown into more of a compliance test - we get cars from all over the world,they have to meet our requirements.

I think it's a good system (I would wouldn't I,if it was my job)We tend to run older vehicles and with a poor economy maintenance is minimal,this way everything is kept up to a certain standard.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I do not like the inspections for all of the reasons already mentioned. Well I don't like having a sticker on my windshield and another excuse to be pulled over by the police. I don't know if that has been mentioned or not as I've only made it to page 2 so far lol.


Then you'd really hate living in NY...land of taxes, paperwork, and stickers.

To wit...

IMG_0732.jpg



These stickers are applied to the bottom side on left (driver's) side of windshield. Sticker on left is registration sticker. Contains expiration (in this case 6/9/10), VIN, and plate number. As you can see it's placed right above stamped VIN for easy comparison by law enforcement. In addition, you must carry registration receipt in glovebox along with insurance card. The receipt contains registrant's name and address. Must be produced upon demand by law enforcement. This sticker is owner applied and is good for 2 years. Fee varies by vehicle class, weight, etc and for this Honda it's $31 for the 2 years.

Sticker on right is annual inspection sticker. It is applied by the shop performing the inspection. That sticker changes color every January 1st so law enforcement can easily spot someone who has let their inspection lapse more than one year. As you can see the month of June is punched out. That's when the vehicle is due for inspection. You do not receive a reminder from DMV that your inspection is due. It's is the owner's responsibility. So in this case if law enforcement pulls you over in July 2010 and the sticker says June 2010 you'll get a ticket.

The cops do set up road blocks and perform "sticker checks" along with other vehicle violations. Helps them to fill their ticket quota and the court's coffers.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think that should be done on a case by case basis by the Highway Patrol or any police on patrol. If I'm not mistaken that's how it works in Ohio. The HWP or any police officer can right you a citation for equipment violation. Not everyone should be subjected to these annoying yearly inspections.


In this area, a citation for an equipment violation would be interpreted by the minority communities as they, as a minority group, are being discriminated against by the police officers.

The cry would be that "we're not rich, and we can't afford to have nice vehicles, and the police are singling us out because of our vehicles and are ticketing us".

That's why it would have to apply to everyone.

Sad, but true.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC

It's a stupid idea because some vehicles like to turn on the light because you flatulated in the car so to speak and not because an emission system component failed to operate. Or they have a code for everything because it generates money for the dealer and they know that the light will weigh on peoples conscience.

Then there is the hiccups where the system sets the light, and after a quick reset, never re-illuminates the light again because everything is working properly but for some reason it goofed during diagnostics.

How about setting the light because the A/C compressor doesn't work because it is broken or because it is low on refrigerant and can't operate. Happens in some vehicles that this will set the CEL.



My GM stuff has a separate "service vehicle" light for non emissions issues, like fritzy BCM stuff.

Quote:


IMO the only FAIR way to test for emissions is to use the tail-pipe gas analyzer and a gas cap test. That's it.


When they wrote the laws for OBDII in the early 90s they knew the treadmill/idle test only caught one parameter. Since some scans, like EGR, only effectively run under decelleration, we need to have the car perform the test in the course of daily driving then remember and report.

I've read on many forums of modded cars that passed an idle sniffer, and therefore were "as clean as when they left the factory"... well, that's only a gateway to catch grossly underperforming/ misfiring vehicles.

I will agree across makes I've seen there are some niggling design flaws, particularly the EVAP system, that cause CELs before the rest of a car is used up.
 
Quote:
1- Do you live in a state with mandatory inspections? How do they do it, does it work well?


A = Yes. NH has both an emmissions and a safety inspection. Done once a year when your registration is due for renewal. Done at any licensed inspection station( car dealers, auto body shops, and regular repair shops ). Used to cost you $10 for the safety inspection before emmissions hit. Then it jumped all the way to $50-$75 for the 2( had to pay for the new machines ). It has since dropped to $30 most places for the 2. I actually get it done for $15 at the dealer where I bought the truck as a perk for buying there. They put a sticker on your windshield( in front of rearview mirror )with a big number showing the month it exprires( different color each year ). Cops can easily see if you have had it done by the sticker.

Yes, I think it works well. They use a tail pipe probe for the emmissions part, as well as a visual inspection to ensure you haven't removed any parts of the emmissions system, and then a visual inspection of things for the safety part( brakes, tires, suspension, etc... ). If you fail you have to get the problem(s) fixed( see below )or no sticker. I have no problem with "reasonable" emmissions laws and I am 100% for the safety inspections. You see some scary vehicles on the road in states that don't have it. Good way to ensure people have good brakes, tires, etc... on the vehicle so they are safe to be on the road.

We have had the safety inspection part as long as I have been driving. The emmissions part was implemented a few years ago. That was a big issue here and there was a lot of fighting for years before it took place because of the environmental fringe nuts. They wanted it to be very severe and it would have been a huge problem for people with older vehicles that never had to worry about emmissions before. At the time it would have really hurt me as I had an old LTD CV that the entire emmssions system was shot and it had no cat's. Legal at the time, and the car ran great, but the new law, as proposed, would have forced me to replace ALL of it. Car wasn't worth what it would have cost me.

The compromise that was reached was as follows. They set a cut off date where vehicles were required to meet the emmissions guidelines( what the vehicle would have been required to meet when new = Fed guidelines )with no exceptions. You had to meet whatever emmssions standards it did new regardless of what it cost you to get it there. It was a reasonable cut off date as I recall( 8-10 years old or newer as I recall ). Vehicles older than the cut off date, that failed the emmissions inspection, were required to spend up to a set amount to bring the vehicle into compliance. I think it was $1000. If after the $1000 it still didn't pass you got a waiver. At one time they wanted to make people try for a set # of years in a row( 3-5 I seem to remember being thrown around )to bring the car into compliance. You would have had to spend that $1000 each year. If after the 3-5 years it still didn't pass you were finally exempt from trying. I believe that was defeated and they finally settled on a one shot attempt to bring it into code only. Not sure that is 100% right though as by the time it actually became law I had new vehicles only and it was moot for me.
 
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We have the safety inspection and emissions in NC. There has been a movement to get rid of the safety inspection because statistically it is a huge waste of time and money.But the mechanic/shop representatives wanted to keep it playing on people's fears. Personally I wish they would get rid of it like other states have. A person is always responsible for driving a road worthy car regardless of inspections or not.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: StevieC

It's a stupid idea because some vehicles like to turn on the light because you flatulated in the car so to speak and not because an emission system component failed to operate. Or they have a code for everything because it generates money for the dealer and they know that the light will weigh on peoples conscience.

Then there is the hiccups where the system sets the light, and after a quick reset, never re-illuminates the light again because everything is working properly but for some reason it goofed during diagnostics.

How about setting the light because the A/C compressor doesn't work because it is broken or because it is low on refrigerant and can't operate. Happens in some vehicles that this will set the CEL.



My GM stuff has a separate "service vehicle" light for non emissions issues, like fritzy BCM stuff.

Quote:


IMO the only FAIR way to test for emissions is to use the tail-pipe gas analyzer and a gas cap test. That's it.


When they wrote the laws for OBDII in the early 90s they knew the treadmill/idle test only caught one parameter. Since some scans, like EGR, only effectively run under decelleration, we need to have the car perform the test in the course of daily driving then remember and report.

I've read on many forums of modded cars that passed an idle sniffer, and therefore were "as clean as when they left the factory"... well, that's only a gateway to catch grossly underperforming/ misfiring vehicles.

I will agree across makes I've seen there are some niggling design flaws, particularly the EVAP system, that cause CELs before the rest of a car is used up.


It doesn't just do an idle test, the vehicle is started and allowed to warm up while the information is entered etc. then there is a 40kph emission components warm-up for 2 minutes before the test begins, then the test begins while still doing 40kph and it takes up to 2 minutes depending on how clean the emissions are during the test, the worse they are the more time it gets (up to 2 min) to see if it cleans itself up, then the car is left at idle and it sits there for 30 seconds while the emissions are monitored.

The system knows the RPM as well so there is no fooling it trying to use a different gear.
 
Quote:
The system knows the RPM as well so there is no fooling it trying to use a different gear.


You just stuff the sniffer up a known good tail pipe and simulate the test.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
In NY it pays to be car-savvy. The folks who aren't get raked over the coals every inspection. Upsold on repairs and browbeaten into unnecessary services.



When I lived in NYC I told the garage to change the oil,maybe wiper blades or other small stuff when I took the car in for inspection...They never came to me asking for more work...The others who just went for inspection and nothing else were told they needed a lot of work to pass the smog test.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
You just stuff the sniffer up a known good tail pipe and simulate the test.
Only after Mexican night...
grin2.gif
 
Correct- IL only has emissions in the Chicago and St. Louis metro area. Thankfully, they have changed the system. You used to have to put the sticker on the windshield, and it was a whole separate process of certification and "you will lose your license if you don't" bologna. Now it is tied to your plate renewal- if you don't get the test, you can't buy the sticker. Much easier for everyone to deal with.

On the weird side, they changed the system so that older cars no longer have to do the testing, as long as they pass their final test. I think it's 15 years old or older now. Which seems to go against the point of the whole thing. I gotta think that one 1990 POS will spew far more awful into the air than 10 new cars with a CEL on. But the tests for the OBD-I and older vehicles was expensive- they put the car on a treadmill and ran it through various speeds. Last time I had one of my old Dodges done, I thought the car was going to explode and leap off the rollers. (I think it had some front-end issues...)

Some of the stories of the "certified inspectors" bending people over for $20 marker lamps and whatnot is one of the reasons I suggested that private inspectors would only have the power to "pass" someone, and not to fail them. If a driver wanted to spend money to save time at the DMV, they could buy a certificate. If they didn't, they could wait in line like everyone else. But nobody would be forced to pay a private garage anything, nor would the garages be forced to limit their charges. Any law that forces a private company to limit their prices seems wrong to me, just as wrong as a law that forces people to have to pay a private company. I believe there should be inspections on cars, absolutely. For the same reason we have inspections for airplanes- people die when these machines aren't maintained properly. But I also believe the costs (and the inspection itself) should be part of the renewal process. We're not protecting people from themselves (so-called nanny state) as much as we are protecting everyone else from them.

(Interesting aside- a lot of people love proclaiming that drunk drivers are out there killing people at a furious pace, and are happy to support all kinds of laws against them. You know who the vast majority of people they kill are? Themselves and their adult passengers. Other drivers, pedestrians and children are almost nill- far less than "normal" accidents.)

One of the oddities of IL drivers and vehicle licensing is that the plates cost $79 every year. That's the right to operate that vehicle on the roads. Costs them almost nothing to do- cash your check and print out a sticker. The plates do not get replaced unless they are falling apart.

(And lord help you if you buy a car- $79 for the plates, $65 for the title transfer, and anywhere from $10 to a few hundred in taxes. Or if you need a medium or heavy duty truck- hundreds and hundreds of dollars...)

On the other hand, a drivers license is $30 for five years. A simple state ID is $20. (Until last month, it was $10. It cost more to get an ID than it did to get a license!) But the costs of licensing someone are wayyy higher! Even if it's just a straight renewal, you have to answer all the questions, take the vision test, and they have to make the card. And if you have to take a road test, you use up nearly an hour of their payroll! I was just talking to one of the examiners, and she was telling me she was off work for nearly a year because she got t-boned while out on an examination and had to have surgery... (Meanwhile, if a 16 year old kid passes drivers Ed, they don't have to take a driving test at all. The requirements are higher now, but in 1991, I had only ever driven on the road for three hours and I was a licensed driver. Scary.)

Seems to me it should cost more for the license than the plates, but that's neither here nor there.
 
In the states that have emission testing is there a cut off year? Ours is anything 89' or newer gets tested every 2nd year. It used to be anything older than 20 years from the current date wasn't tested but I guess that didn't pull enough cars off the road so now it's '89 and newer. (But still older than 4-5 years from new before the first test)

I'm lucky my '89 Cabriolet blows virtually all 0's on its report.
 
Before OBDII (the change) and for OBDI and prior vehicles we have a floating system. Originally it was standards by chassis class. Then it went to engine specific. What happened is that the new registrations exceeded the tonnage of gross pollutants. More cars registered, more stuff. The solution was to lower the limits. They were generous enough for most of my cars.

I don't believe that we have any exemption for age of the vehicle. Except that there may be no tuned approved standard for it. It could be exempt under antique tags. It would also be unlikely to have a 25+ year old car (required for antique registration) to be doing over 5k/year ..which would make it exempt anyway.
 
Growing up in Germany I do not mind mandatory inspections at all. I think body rust is just as important as emissions or good healthy struts etc........I too fear that in this country it would be a tax machine instead of a real way to protect the motoring public.
 
Originally Posted By: labman
One of the nice things about our federal system is that states are free to try things and see what works. In 5 posts, nobody brought up the subject of fewer accidents in states with inspection. Are there? If not, trash the expensive boondoggle.

It is like the tornado warning sirens. In all the discussion of them and justification for them, I have never seen a single statistic comparing areas struck by tornadoes with and without them.


So 3 pages and I am the only asking for proof of how much good they do?
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: labman
One of the nice things about our federal system is that states are free to try things and see what works. In 5 posts, nobody brought up the subject of fewer accidents in states with inspection. Are there? If not, trash the expensive boondoggle.

It is like the tornado warning sirens. In all the discussion of them and justification for them, I have never seen a single statistic comparing areas struck by tornadoes with and without them.


So 3 pages and I am the only asking for proof of how much good they do?



Google is your friend....

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-30/ncsa/STSI/USA WEB REPORT.HTM
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
No safety/emissions checked where I live. Too bad as people drive very unsafe cars. If I follow a ghetto car, more often than not exhaust stink is unbearable! I bet that cat converters are stripped away on those cars for money or maybe to save some on gas.
Those are big old gas guzzlers, mind you.

Now that you mention the big old gas guzzlers, I did see a ton of them in Birmingham. Many are made unsafe as a result of the owners modifying them. I saw a lot of cars with interesting home grown lifts and huge 26" wheels on stock brakes. You are right about the exhaust fumes too.
 
Originally Posted By: Axe Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I do not like the inspections for all of the reasons already mentioned. Well I don't like having a sticker on my windshield and another excuse to be pulled over by the police. I don't know if that has been mentioned or not as I've only made it to page 2 so far lol.


Then you'd really hate living in NY...land of taxes, paperwork, and stickers.

To wit...

IMG_0732.jpg



These stickers are applied to the bottom side on left (driver's) side of windshield. Sticker on left is registration sticker. Contains expiration (in this case 6/9/10), VIN, and plate number. As you can see it's placed right above stamped VIN for easy comparison by law enforcement. In addition, you must carry registration receipt in glovebox along with insurance card. The receipt contains registrant's name and address. Must be produced upon demand by law enforcement. This sticker is owner applied and is good for 2 years. Fee varies by vehicle class, weight, etc and for this Honda it's $31 for the 2 years.

Sticker on right is annual inspection sticker. It is applied by the shop performing the inspection. That sticker changes color every January 1st so law enforcement can easily spot someone who has let their inspection lapse more than one year. As you can see the month of June is punched out. That's when the vehicle is due for inspection. You do not receive a reminder from DMV that your inspection is due. It's is the owner's responsibility. So in this case if law enforcement pulls you over in July 2010 and the sticker says June 2010 you'll get a ticket.

The cops do set up road blocks and perform "sticker checks" along with other vehicle violations. Helps them to fill their ticket quota and the court's coffers.


You're right. I would not like that.
 
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