Mandatory vehicle inspections - non political

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

I don't like the inspection. I take care of my vehicle, so for me it's just a yearly hassle that costs me $30. Plus, it's going to keep me from being able to put a 5.0 in my truck.


Move to Miami and you will have no problem being able to put in your 5.0.

 

[Herz]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I think mandatory inspection is a great idea but I don't like the bodies that usually run it and turn it into a way to tax the people or into a way for shops to extort money in unnecessary repairs from its customers. [


+1

It will turn into another tax. Eventually people wouldnt be able to work on thier own cars everything will turn into a licsensed repair facility and you can even buy brake pads anymore, or motor oil, coolant, hoses etc.. The feds cant do anything at all right. Anything, not one thing.

 

[Liquid_Turbo]

Originally Posted By: swalve
I thought the conversation about mandatory inspections was a good one, but I understand that it got too political. Thought I'd start a new topic about it, without the political derail.

1- Do you live in a state with mandatory inspections? How do they do it, does it work well?

2- If a mandatory inspection law were passed, how would you implement it? What would be on the list of inspection points? Must-fixes?

Here in Illinois, we have emmissions, but no inspections. Many of the cars on the road are horrifying. I've visited VA, where they have inspections, and the cars seem a lot more sturdy looking.

I'd say that a good solution would be:

1- Eyeball the vehicle alignment. Is steering wheel straight, are wheels straight?

2- Eyeball the brakes, check for loose parts, damaged parts, dangerous scoring.

3- Drop a tread checker into the tire. If it's below the threshold, fail.

4- Exhaust test- plug the exhaust with a pressure type of gauge. When the exhaust reaches a certain (non damaging) pressure, the tester pops off. If it doesn't reach that pressure and the car continues idling, there is a leak.

5- Lights, signals, horns, etc.

6- Grab all four wheels and shake them.

7- (somehow) measure freeplay in steering.

8- Plug in a odb-II tester and look for Bad Codes.

It seems to me this kind of test would last 5 minutes, and is easily done by people without much experience. They could set up a deal where you have to go get it done before you try to buy your sticker, perhaps with a network of service stations that can give you a "Pass" certificate, but cannot "fail" you. (This would eliminate the issue where a bad service station can bend you over and fail you unless you pay for unneeded repairs.)

The price of the sticker includes the cost of one inspection from the DMV people, if you fail, a subsequent inspection would be $10 or something. Or, if you needed tires installed, the tire dealer could "pass" you on the tires and you can renew.

Can't sell a car unless it is up to date on inspections. If a car fails with non-life threatening problems, you can get a waiver for one renewal. The next time, you have to pass.

My belief is that this doesn't infringe on anyone, a car owner who is even moderately concerned about maintenance would pass with flying colors. But it would keep the dangerous cars off the road.



Good post. I also agree the other thread was good discussion. Sad when people decide to inject politics and ruin a perfectly good thread.

Here in British Columbia there are smog checks. It's definitely been working, even thought I oppose the $45 fee for them to just plug in a ECU checker.

No mechanical checks as of yet. Although when you go for a roadtest, the instructor does a basic check. (Probably for his/her own safety)

 

[Gary Allan]

PA is probably still the most conservative state for inspections. Back in the 70's it was every 6 months

You couldn't legally put duals on a car that came off the assembly line with single exhaust, even if duals were an option. Very conservative. No headers or exhaust mods until (iirc) 1976 or so.

Like most good intentioned actions it turns into a racket for some sooner or later. In our enhanced emissions county, it's about $80 with no repairs for the IM an safety inspection. I can't really blame the service centers for the high cost of IM. The state jerked them around with spending all kinds of money for dyno-based sniffer tests for pre-OBDII cars, then at the drop of a hat went to the OBDII method. It was a relatively short span of years. Hardly time to recover the costs. To do IM inspections you have to sign up to the DMV database and there's a $10 (that may have been $5) fee per transmission of the data. You get an EXEMPTION sticker if you're under 5k/year.

IM testing aside, I think that we've managed to make most cars too expensive to maintain when they get to ****'box status. Most outfits are legit ..but they depend on the $300-$500 bi-annual ticket per customer for a living. The incidence of routine failure would never sustain the market. Maintenance just keeps the pipeline full between inspections. The tire/brake/alignment/suspension work generated by the inspection process makes most of money.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
...
Here in British Columbia there are smog checks. It's definitely been working, even thought I oppose the $45 fee for them to just plug in a ECU checker.

No mechanical checks as of yet. Although when you go for a roadtest, the instructor does a basic check. (Probably for his/her own safety)


That's interestesting because it is every 2nd year after the car is 4-5 years old or when a car is sold (still has to be 4-5 years old). It's $35. They only check the fumes coming out the pipe and the gas cap.

There are lots of

mechanics around that will "Hook you up" for $50 and make sure it makes the grade. Most cars 10 years and newer pass anyways... It's usually the really bad offenders driving something super old and super poorly maintained. It should be pulled off the road for other reasons.

IMO Emission testing is a waste here.

 

[PT1]

Here in select parts of Ohio we have smog checks...total waste of money and time. Mandatory inspections are just more nanny state garbage. Just more political payoff jobs created by the government. The do absolutely no good. Emissions here go down because manufacturing is running away to China & Mexico because of too many regulations not because of the Governors OBD computer.

 

[Axe Man]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
PA has mandatory yearly inspections. Brake lining on two diagonal wheels is checked, all lights must be operable (lots of bulbs are replaced that folks did not know were burned out), window glass has to be non-cracked, tires have to have a certain amount of tread, wipers need to work (non-streaking) the horn has to operate and there cannot be gross failures of parts (ie the steering mechanism cannot have broken parts). There used to be a requirement on rust and holes in the body but that has basically disappeared. In certain more highly populated areas of the state there is an emissions inspection. A computer is hooked up to the car and sends the VIN and the info to the DMV in Harrisburg, PA. Usually, if the check engine light is off, you will pass this. Since the charge for this can run about $40, this really ticks folks off as it is just a tax but it does allow the state to verify emissions.

Overall, the system is reasonable. Cars are safer and don't suffer from as many critical system issues, I would thin. I lived in both Illinois and Indiana and found the systems there to be useless, if they existed at all.



New York State system is almost identical. Shops performing the inspections must be registered by the state and the mechanic performing the inspections certified. All 1996 and newer vehicles are plugged into a code reader directly connected to DMV. No CEL and you are OK. CEL on and automatic fail. I think some counties do tailpipe emissions but I'm not sure.

It is a good system. Keeps rolling wrecks off the roads. And best part is that the State mandates that the total charge, including plugging into the code reader, cannot exceed $21 if no defects are found.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I am surprised we dont have mandatory inspections here in Ontario, there is alot of vehicles that are on the road that should not be. I agree, yearly inspections would be a good idea, as long as it is not expensive.


Agreed. They have them in New Brunswick and I like them.

 

[Scdevon]

Originally Posted By: Axe Man

It is a good system. Keeps rolling wrecks off the roads.


Sometimes maybe.

"They" have an interest in keeping the masses driving late model cars, though. Full coverage insurance vs. just liability insurance on older cars. Increased sales tax booty. Increased registration fees in some states. Banks get more interest revenue from new car loans. The list goes on. "The system" loves it when you buy new car. States sometimes grease the way by making it too expensive or inconvenient for you to drive a 10+ year old car.

 

[Axe Man]

Sorry, but I disagree. There are many, many pre-OBD-II vehicles running around NYS that are perfectly legal. The annual inspection for those vehicles as far as emissions devices are concerned is that they be intact. For example, is the cat converter present and not damaged? And the balance of the inspection is reasonable. Tires OK? Lights work? Front end OK? Brakes OK? If you take care of your car, no matter the age, you'll pass.

And anyone with an OBD-II vehicle driving around with the CEL on get's what they deserve come annual inspection, IMHO.

Now is the system perfect? Of course not. Shops have been known to take bribes to pass a vehicle. But they risk losing their license to inspect as well as perform ANY repair work. And of course you get dishonest shops that claim something needs to be repaired to pass inspection when it isn't required or still good.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Axe Man
Originally Posted By: Boomer
PA has mandatory yearly inspections. Brake lining on two diagonal wheels is checked, all lights must be operable (lots of bulbs are replaced that folks did not know were burned out), window glass has to be non-cracked, tires have to have a certain amount of tread, wipers need to work (non-streaking) the horn has to operate and there cannot be gross failures of parts (ie the steering mechanism cannot have broken parts). There used to be a requirement on rust and holes in the body but that has basically disappeared. In certain more highly populated areas of the state there is an emissions inspection. A computer is hooked up to the car and sends the VIN and the info to the DMV in Harrisburg, PA. Usually, if the check engine light is off, you will pass this. Since the charge for this can run about $40, this really ticks folks off as it is just a tax but it does allow the state to verify emissions.

Overall, the system is reasonable. Cars are safer and don't suffer from as many critical system issues, I would thin. I lived in both Illinois and Indiana and found the systems there to be useless, if they existed at all.



New York State system is almost identical. Shops performing the inspections must be registered by the state and the mechanic performing the inspections certified. All 1996 and newer vehicles are plugged into a code reader directly connected to DMV. No CEL and you are OK. CEL on and automatic fail. I think some counties do tailpipe emissions but I'm not sure.

It is a good system. Keeps rolling wrecks off the roads. And best part is that the State mandates that the total charge, including plugging into the code reader, cannot exceed $21 if no defects are found.


It's a stupid idea because some vehicles like to turn on the light because you flatulated in the car so to speak and not because an emission system component failed to operate. Or they have a code for everything because it generates money for the dealer and they know that the light will weigh on peoples conscience.

Then there is the hiccups where the system sets the light, and after a quick reset, never re-illuminates the light again because everything is working properly but for some reason it goofed during diagnostics.

How about setting the light because the A/C compressor doesn't work because it is broken or because it is low on refrigerant and can't operate. Happens in some vehicles that this will set the CEL.

What about a bad ECU that keeps setting the light with all kinds of codes for no reason, yet the emissions coming out the pipe are clean? I have seen this a handful of time. Usually GM, but thats besides the point. Why should this owner replace the ECM when the car is clean?

IMO the only FAIR way to test for emissions is to use the tail-pipe gas analyzer and a gas cap test. That's it.

 

[sciphi]

NYS inspection is far from perfect. It is fair to middling in effectiveness. It keeps the trash off the roads, and the rest of us have a minimal assurance the yahoo flying up to the red light can stop without involving your car.

Quite a few chain shops will be quite thorough in their inspections and fail you for marginal things. If you fail, you have until the end of the month to bring your car into compliance, and re-tested.

 

[Shannow]

When I first got my licence, the ACT (Canberra) had a state run annual inspection. $27.

While waiting in line, a tech checked your lights, wipers and indicators.
Then over the pits, front end jacked up, ball joints, rod ends, rack, general condition, rust, oil leaks etc.
Into the next bay, where headlight alignment was checked (and adjusted if necessary), then onto a brake dyno which tested the stopping power, balance side to side and front to rear.

Picked up a proportioning valve issue in Dad's R16 which had us driving without rear brakes.

They'd asses your mods, and give you a certificate for reasonable stuff...mine was headers, triple carbs, lowered, wheels etc.

They dropped the annual inspection arguing that people only looked at their cars once per year, whereas with no annual inspection they'd be eternally vigilant.

Within 5 years, their road toll was up to the same standard of the rest of the country.

My state has annual check at licenced mechanic. Front end up on jack, and checked. Brake performance test (my 4WD pulls 0.92g, and the E30 0.95).

No test required for 3 years on a new car. Which makes me think it's less about revenue raising.

I think it's a great idea, having seen a tennis ball fall out the side of a visiting car registered interstate with no checks, except at changeover.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Here in select parts of Ohio we have smog checks...total waste of money and time.


Yes. You export most of your coal fired based pollution north and east of you. There's a reason most of the alleged pristine New England wilderness is barren.

 

[mechanicx]

I do not like the inspections for all of the reasons already mentioned. Well I don't like having a sticker on my windshield and another excuse to be pulled over by the police. I don't know if that has been mentioned or not as I've only made it to page 2 so far lol.

I do not live in a state that has imnspections now, but when I did it was a joke. It had abuses as others had mentioned going both ways-shops trying to get unnecessary repairs and shops passing anything. I remember back in the 80's some people would still cut their catalytic coverter off. And you could still get an inspection pass lol. And they were still selling (slightly) leaded gas at stations back then and people would run it in a unleaded application by cutting out the filler neck lol. Back then a lot of people didn't think or care much about emissions for better or worse. Btw, I'm not really an old fogey, I am just remembering from when I was a kid

.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Scdevon
Originally Posted By: Axe Man

It is a good system. Keeps rolling wrecks off the roads.


Sometimes maybe.

"They" have an interest in keeping the masses driving late model cars, though. Full coverage insurance vs. just liability insurance on older cars. Increased sales tax booty. Increased registration fees in some states. Banks get more interest revenue from new car loans. The list goes on. "The system" loves it when you buy new car. States sometimes grease the way by making it too expensive or inconvenient for you to drive a 10+ year old car.


I've heard in Japan and parts of asia it's even worse, not that it makes it any better here or anything. They basically taxes you more if your car is over 10 years old or something like that. I can only imagine how bad their inspections are.

 

[sciphi]

In NY it pays to be car-savvy. The folks who aren't get raked over the coals every inspection. Upsold on repairs and browbeaten into unnecessary services.

The best way to avoid hassles at inspection time is to do your own inspection a few days beforehand to make sure your bulbs work, etc.

There are so many cars out here with 1 stop light working around here it's not funny. And about once every few weeks I'll be stuck behind a car blowing lots of smoke and sounding like automotive death.

 

[mrsilv04]

Emissions testing in Illinois is only done in the metro areas of Chicago and possibly East St. Louis.

I'm midstate, and nothing is done here yet... no safety, no emissions.

I'm in favor of bringing back safety tests, to get some of these rolling junk heaps off of the roads. What some people think is a "safe" car is beyond belief.

 

[mechanicx]

I think that should be done on a case by case basis by the Highway Patrol or any police on patrol. If I'm not mistaken that's how it works in Ohio. The HWP or any police officer can right you a citation for equipment violation. Not everyone should be subjected to these annoying yearly inspections.

 

[Fazzone]

In WI, they only do emissions testing in the Milwaukee area to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps, and this is a big if instead of the gvmt doing these inspections, have the companies that insure the vehicles to take a closer look at the vehicles they choose to stand behind. Not sure how many places require insurance(WI just passed the legislation that will require it next year), but maybe it would be a start.