Malaysian 777 shot down over Ukraine

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Originally Posted By: Andy636
So what's your point there? The USA did a lot of shady stuff as well and the US president denied any implication. Did you know the ex Black Waters security co had some 400 men in Ukraine since before the start of the riot? The same scumbags that threatened to kill US investigator in Iraq...yup...pretty sure they are not there for tourism.

This situation is starting to look more and more like Yugoslavia...and we all know how that went.

[censored] Russia off is not helping as more sanctions they get the more I and the rest of the Europe have to pay for natural gas, and probably you have no idea how cold it gets here during the winter.


The U.S. government would not send PMC to Ukraine. Ukraine would likely hired the mercenaries. Quite of few mercenaries are making some good money for themselves here.

I know how cold some parts of Europe become. I feel bad that you are one of the many millions of people that is at the mercy of Putin. That must be terrible.
 
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Also are you concerned since you claim to be in Norway a dictator in Eurasia that has invaded sovereign countries to "protect" his "ethnic brother's and sisters"? This would concern me.


It hasn't been easy for a small country (=Finland) to have Russia beside it, but I wouldn't want this West-Russia conflict escalate any further. China would win, Europe would lose (with energy trade etc.).


I apologize for my mistake.
 
A US warship shot down a scheduled commercial aircraft a few years ago. As I remember, we paid reparations to the families who lost loved ones. The downing of the Malaysian 777 is a case of giving a very sophisticated weapon system to a bunch of semi-illiterate morons responsible to no one.
 
my friend is a pilot for Atlas and they overflew Ukraine last week, his comment is that we will change our routing!!Tragic event
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
And what would be the motive for them to use it against an airliner with transponder on? That would be idiotic.

Motive? Russia can blame this incident on an "unruly" Ukraine, to justify taking over the country in order to restore "order."


Maybe it should have been russian airliner with russian passengers for such purpose to make sense.

It would have made no more sense to have shot down a Russian civilian airliner than any other.


If they did that Putin would be through the Ukraine like $hit through a goose in no time flat.
There is absolutely nothing the US or NATO can do against Russia.
The US isn't the super power it once was, now its weak and probably second heading for third on the list. They are in no position to dictate anything never mind against another super power especially one with a strong leader.

The US will never send aircraft near Russia in combat mode, they wouldn't risk exposure to the S400 which can take US stealth aircraft the S300 can handle the rest.

On the ground US forces don't have a prayer against the Russians on their own turf in the air the US will sustain very heavy losses. This wont be some Mickey Mouse third world hole supplied with obsolete Russian junk.
This will be against their best and Russian pilots flying their most modern planes including the SU37 and other top Russian fighters. The US has never met top shelf fighters with good pilots since WWII.

Then there is the question of leaders. Oh well i guess we don't need to go there.
 
Originally Posted By: davglt
my friend is a pilot for Atlas and they overflew Ukraine last week, his comment is that we will change our routing!!Tragic event

Really? Last week? The FAA gave the directive in April I think. Must have only been for domestic passenger aircraft then.
 
Of course the U.S. is going to do nothing this is why Putin is continuing his conquest. Americans do not have the gumption to fight a war. Also the U.S. military presence in Europe has dwindled to less than 15% of forces compared to 15 years ago.

The U.S. has basically begged the European Union to spend more to bolster their own defense.

The same hemming and hawing response from Europe has been the Cold War is over this is the 21st century there will no longer be large WWII like conflicts.

Europeans are right there will be no longer large WWII like conflicts. Because most of Europe could just be steamrolled. Putin has played his hand prefect. Slowly building his resources binding his time waiting until Europe is nearly impotent.
 
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
A US warship shot down a scheduled commercial aircraft a few years ago. As I remember, we paid reparations to the families who lost loved ones. The downing of the Malaysian 777 is a case of giving a very sophisticated weapon system to a bunch of semi-illiterate morons responsible to no one.


Yup, it was Iranian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Does the semi (il)literate morons also refer to US Navy?

Unfortunate events occur when people evaluate a situation (incorrectly) and act upon it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Of course the U.S. is going to do nothing this is why Putin is continuing his conquest. Americans do not have the gumption to fight a war. Also the U.S. military presence in Europe has dwindled to less than 15% of forces compared to 15 years ago.

The U.S. has basically begged the European Union to spend more to bolster their own defense.

The same hemming and hawing response from Europe has been the Cold War is over this is the 21st century there will no longer be large WWII like conflicts.

Europeans are right there will be no longer large WWII like conflicts. Because most of Europe could just be steamrolled. Putin has played his hand prefect. Slowly building his resources binding his time waiting until Europe is nearly impotent.


Hey now...slow down cowboy...

If you want to fight Russia I say be my quest...but do it not in Europe but somewhere over Canada or Alaska this time since we had our fair share of [censored] going on for the last century and we are kinda sick of it.

The problem is that Ukraine wanted to join the EU thinking it will rain euros and they loved the idea since they are kinda flat broke. Now IMHO the US top brass must of got a gigantic b0nner at the idea of being able to set up some missile defense and why not on door steps of Russia once Ukraine would of joined the EU and that kinda fueled the conflict.

As for the air space...the air traffic over Romania jumped by 30% in the last hours due to all the airlines avoiding Ukrainian airspace.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Europeans are right there will be no longer large WWII like conflicts. Because most of Europe could just be steamrolled. Putin has played his hand prefect. Slowly building his resources binding his time waiting until Europe is nearly impotent.


Russia would go bankcrupt by steamrolling it's most important export partner.
 
The last time the Russians invaded a Mickey Mouse third world hole, their forces fled with their tails between their legs, harassed and picked off all the way, just like the Brits before them.
Their forces might look big and bad when pacifying some hapless little CIS country, but I doubt that they'd fare as well if faced with the panoply of assets a serious adversary could field.
 
Originally Posted By: Andy636

The problem is that Ukraine wanted to join the EU thinking it will rain euros and they loved the idea since they are kinda flat broke. Now IMHO the US top brass must of got a gigantic b0nner at the idea of being able to set up some missile defense and why not on door steps of Russia once Ukraine would of joined the EU and that kinda fueled the conflict.


While your point is good, the bigger problem is you have a dictator in Russia who has an ambition to rebuild Soviet Union and maybe even rule the world later.

He is a very skilled politician who went from unknown KGB officer to president in no time.

The irony is with the developed/developing world quickly burning through shrinking oil reserves, Russia will become very powerful and can actually afford his dreams of power.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The last time the Russians invaded a Mickey Mouse third world hole, their forces fled with their tails between their legs, harassed and picked off all the way, just like the Brits before them.


Sorry to say, but the same applies to USA (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganistan).
 
What are you talking about, Afghanistan? The US is doing exactly the same thing.
The US is not going to start trouble with Russia its that simple, They cant either logistically or financially , they wont and they really don't want to.
Its a show nothing more and nothing less. The American people would not stand for another war, they don't have the stomach for seeing the war on TV every night.
We all know how that turns out. IIRC that little fiasco was called Vietnam.

No one in their right mind would believe for a second there will ever be a another ground war in Europe.
When the Russians took all the countries the first time around all the way up to 1968 no one did anything but they all talked a lot.
 
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Europeans are right there will be no longer large WWII like conflicts. Because most of Europe could just be steamrolled. Putin has played his hand prefect. Slowly building his resources binding his time waiting until Europe is nearly impotent.


Russia would go bankcrupt by steamrolling it's most important export partner.


Sorry. Debt does not stop a country from expanding it's borders. Russia has paid its an national debt down to less than 8% of its GDP and has stockpiled foreign cash reserves and precious metals to maintain it's economy for the next 18 months at least.

Russia's main exports are oil, natural gas, wood, min and military equipment. There is not a lack customers for what Russia sells. History has shown when a dictator has the power, resources, and will to take what he wants. He will take it with military force. Attempting to stop military action with money just does not work.

Expansion always starts with "protecting ethnic ________ and ancient homeland".
I advise just keep hoping for the best.
 
No, the US isn't doing exactly the same thing.
The US has tried to create a popularly elected government for Afghanistan, not the puppet regime that the Soviets attempted to maintain.
The US has also refrained from the butal actions against the people of Afghanistan that Soviet forces undertook with glee.
Hardly comparable.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The last time the Russians invaded a Mickey Mouse third world hole, their forces fled with their tails between their legs, harassed and picked off all the way, just like the Brits before them.


Sorry to say, but the same applies to USA (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganistan).


The U.S. is still in Korea and in Afghanistan. The U.S. left Iraq because an elected individual promised to withdraw because of his campaign promise with out thinking of possible repercussions of his actions.

Now we see what happened. This is for another subject.
 
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