If magnets on the oil filter were a good thing you would see some reputable company doing it. Would be great to market a "new and improved" filter with all the advertising as to how great our "new magnetic filter" is. Where is it? Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm.
Magnets on an oil filter
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Originally Posted By: sprite1741
If magnets on the oil filter were a good thing you would see some reputable company doing it. Would be great to market a "new and improved" filter with all the advertising as to how great our "new magnetic filter" is. Where is it? Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm.
See above
If magnets on the oil filter were a good thing you would see some reputable company doing it. Would be great to market a "new and improved" filter with all the advertising as to how great our "new magnetic filter" is. Where is it? Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm.
See above
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I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
They think that 50% efficiency at 25microns is good enough, too, as long as the engine doesn't knock at startup.
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Fram got into the snake oil craze once. Remember Tuf-oil and Slick 50 w Teflon? Fram tried it too. I think they learned their lesson as that didn't last long after DuPont said Teflon should not be used in engines and the lot of them got in trouble with the FTC. Don't think they will try magnets anytime soon.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
You may be right that magnets on a filter are a bad idea, and I said so above (see above 1) but your stated reasons for saying it seem to be a mixture of "Everything must be for the best in the best of all possible worlds/What's good for General Motors is good for the country/The customer is always right."
These arguments ignore some basic flaws in consumer capitalism, especially "The punter is a prat", which is a killer.
A major company getting into filter magnets would have to do the basic research to validate them, to cover their arse against class actions, and they'd have to publish at least some of that research as part of their marketing.
You don't have to spend very long on BITOG to realise that major companies don't like publishing (and perhaps don't much like doing) basic research.
As I said above (see above 2), in this case it would be quite difficult to justify magnetic filters without drawing attention to what a [censored]-poor job standard filters do, which most customers are probably completely unaware of. Major companies have people who are employed to stop such potentially self-destructive investments.
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Another flaw is that, IF filter mags are validated, that validation would become public knowledge, helping competitors and DIY enthusiasts. One of the reasons magnets are an attractive idea is that they aren't necessarily consumables. That doesn't fit the bizniz model of major filter manufacturers.
From the small amount of info provided, I wouldn't characterise the Noria-endorsed mag filter above (see above 3) as "snake oil" but I suppose it could be.
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
You may be right that magnets on a filter are a bad idea, and I said so above (see above 1) but your stated reasons for saying it seem to be a mixture of "Everything must be for the best in the best of all possible worlds/What's good for General Motors is good for the country/The customer is always right."
These arguments ignore some basic flaws in consumer capitalism, especially "The punter is a prat", which is a killer.
A major company getting into filter magnets would have to do the basic research to validate them, to cover their arse against class actions, and they'd have to publish at least some of that research as part of their marketing.
You don't have to spend very long on BITOG to realise that major companies don't like publishing (and perhaps don't much like doing) basic research.
As I said above (see above 2), in this case it would be quite difficult to justify magnetic filters without drawing attention to what a [censored]-poor job standard filters do, which most customers are probably completely unaware of. Major companies have people who are employed to stop such potentially self-destructive investments.
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Another flaw is that, IF filter mags are validated, that validation would become public knowledge, helping competitors and DIY enthusiasts. One of the reasons magnets are an attractive idea is that they aren't necessarily consumables. That doesn't fit the bizniz model of major filter manufacturers.
From the small amount of info provided, I wouldn't characterise the Noria-endorsed mag filter above (see above 3) as "snake oil" but I suppose it could be.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
There is no " next line" as you suggest in post #4229353 - the line I quoted in full. I also prefer to think of this as dialog between a bunch of guy that all like cars and engines vs criticism.
although reading back up from that line - I probably should have addressed the master question vs a secondary comment about it though.
Seems to me filter companies sell filters and magnet companies sell magnets, its a valid question as to why hasn't a filter company crossed the line yet.
Someone else mentioned that the suggestion a magnet would help also implies the filter isn't doing a good job.
I believe filtermag to be a reputable company that actually spends money on testing. I believe their claim of 1-3 ISO code drops based on testing.
Can anyone find any evidence anywhere of a clump coming off a magnet and destroying an engine? Anywhere? Id love to see it if someone can.
Can anyone find any rebuild picts of magnetized clumps
Seems to that there is a ton of worry about what could theoretically happen, and a lot of dismissing what happens every engine revolution which is 2-10 micron particles go round and round through your parts completely uninhibited with almost no chance of being caught.
The cool thing about something as inexpensive as all this is that any guy can opt in or out.
All good conversation.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
There is no " next line" as you suggest in post #4229353 - the line I quoted in full. I also prefer to think of this as dialog between a bunch of guy that all like cars and engines vs criticism.
although reading back up from that line - I probably should have addressed the master question vs a secondary comment about it though.
Seems to me filter companies sell filters and magnet companies sell magnets, its a valid question as to why hasn't a filter company crossed the line yet.
Someone else mentioned that the suggestion a magnet would help also implies the filter isn't doing a good job.
I believe filtermag to be a reputable company that actually spends money on testing. I believe their claim of 1-3 ISO code drops based on testing.
Can anyone find any evidence anywhere of a clump coming off a magnet and destroying an engine? Anywhere? Id love to see it if someone can.
Can anyone find any rebuild picts of magnetized clumps
Seems to that there is a ton of worry about what could theoretically happen, and a lot of dismissing what happens every engine revolution which is 2-10 micron particles go round and round through your parts completely uninhibited with almost no chance of being caught.
The cool thing about something as inexpensive as all this is that any guy can opt in or out.
All good conversation.
UD
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
You didn't read what I said did you? I was talking about filters and filter companys. I never said magnetic drain plugs were bad. I use them all the time and yes my GM came with one from the factory. My concern is with the filter where flow and pressures are high and could possibly dislodge anything the magnet may try to hold. If the magnet does concentrate some material in the filter and the filter bypass opens that material could be sucked right into the engine. Magnets don't hold on to things forever, they can be removed by force, possibly by flowing oil. Obviously this does not apply to filters without a bypass but the average Joe has no clue whats in a filter. If you want to magnetize your filter go right ahead. My magnet is in the drain plug. There is not a concentrated flow by the drain plug like there is in a filter.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
You didn't read what I said did you? I was talking about filters and filter companys. I never said magnetic drain plugs were bad. I use them all the time and yes my GM came with one from the factory. My concern is with the filter where flow and pressures are high and could possibly dislodge anything the magnet may try to hold. If the magnet does concentrate some material in the filter and the filter bypass opens that material could be sucked right into the engine. Magnets don't hold on to things forever, they can be removed by force, possibly by flowing oil. Obviously this does not apply to filters without a bypass but the average Joe has no clue whats in a filter. If you want to magnetize your filter go right ahead. My magnet is in the drain plug. There is not a concentrated flow by the drain plug like there is in a filter.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
You didn't read what I said did you? I was talking about filters and filter companys. I never said magnetic drain plugs were bad. I use them all the time and yes my GM came with one from the factory. My concern is with the filter where flow and pressures are high and could possibly dislodge anything the magnet may try to hold. If the magnet does concentrate some material in the filter and the filter bypass opens that material could be sucked right into the engine. Magnets don't hold on to things forever, they can be removed by force, possibly by flowing oil. Obviously this does not apply to filters without a bypass but the average Joe has no clue whats in a filter. If you want to magnetize your filter go right ahead. My magnet is in the drain plug. There is not a concentrated flow by the drain plug like there is in a filter.
I did .
Seems like you replied to my post #4229488 before reading post #4229701
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
You didn't read what I said did you? I was talking about filters and filter companys. I never said magnetic drain plugs were bad. I use them all the time and yes my GM came with one from the factory. My concern is with the filter where flow and pressures are high and could possibly dislodge anything the magnet may try to hold. If the magnet does concentrate some material in the filter and the filter bypass opens that material could be sucked right into the engine. Magnets don't hold on to things forever, they can be removed by force, possibly by flowing oil. Obviously this does not apply to filters without a bypass but the average Joe has no clue whats in a filter. If you want to magnetize your filter go right ahead. My magnet is in the drain plug. There is not a concentrated flow by the drain plug like there is in a filter.
I did .
Seems like you replied to my post #4229488 before reading post #4229701
UD
Originally Posted By: Ducked
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Lets examine this.
Amsoil sells a completely remote bypass system - a very good one.
Cummins Stratapore Venturi has a stacked disk bypass inside the filter.
Microgreen has a bypass inside the filter.
Pretty sure Baldwin has a stratapour competitor in its lineup with an internal bypass.
UD
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Lets examine this.
Amsoil sells a completely remote bypass system - a very good one.
Cummins Stratapore Venturi has a stacked disk bypass inside the filter.
Microgreen has a bypass inside the filter.
Pretty sure Baldwin has a stratapour competitor in its lineup with an internal bypass.
UD
I read it, thank you. I just said what I wanted to say. Why are you pro magnet guys so hostile about my views? If I want to remove sediment or magnetic materials it seems in the sump where it settles out overnight is the best place. Not where the oil is motion and a filter bypass valve might be close by. I must be wrong considering the push back I am getting. I will never add a magnet to an oil filter, but like I said you guys are welcome too.
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I read it, thank you. I just said what I wanted to say to him. Why are you pro magnet guys so hostile about my views? If I want to remove sediment or magnetic materials it seems in the sump where it settles out overnight is the best place. Not where the oil is motion and a filter bypass valve might be close by. I must be wrong considering the push back I am getting. I will never add a magnet to an oil filter, but like I said you guys are welcome too.
It's just dialog because there is no body language or subtlety in mail, it comes off as argumentative where at least from my side its just dialog (Im to old to get emotional about this stuff)
I think a good magnetic drain plug is vastly better than no magnet. (as long as its secure and a rare earth mag a cheap home brew can be disastrous)
I understand the worry about something coming off a filtermag next to a bypass.
I do not share that worry based on my own experience from facilitating approx half a dozen engine rebuild out of my boat company per year, a family owned Oliver tractor and oldsmobile dealership, and my own fleet of equipment and personal rides. Ill put filter mags and drain plug mags on everything I care about, but I also recognize thats my opinion, I just like to share what Ive learned and everyone is of course free to take it or leave it.
UD
I read it, thank you. I just said what I wanted to say to him. Why are you pro magnet guys so hostile about my views? If I want to remove sediment or magnetic materials it seems in the sump where it settles out overnight is the best place. Not where the oil is motion and a filter bypass valve might be close by. I must be wrong considering the push back I am getting. I will never add a magnet to an oil filter, but like I said you guys are welcome too.
It's just dialog because there is no body language or subtlety in mail, it comes off as argumentative where at least from my side its just dialog (Im to old to get emotional about this stuff)
I think a good magnetic drain plug is vastly better than no magnet. (as long as its secure and a rare earth mag a cheap home brew can be disastrous)
I understand the worry about something coming off a filtermag next to a bypass.
I do not share that worry based on my own experience from facilitating approx half a dozen engine rebuild out of my boat company per year, a family owned Oliver tractor and oldsmobile dealership, and my own fleet of equipment and personal rides. Ill put filter mags and drain plug mags on everything I care about, but I also recognize thats my opinion, I just like to share what Ive learned and everyone is of course free to take it or leave it.
UD
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I am not anti-magnet. I use these round ones from Home depot at $1.49 a pair in my transmission, one on the drain pan and one on the filter as per a GM TSB on the 4t65e. Home Depot has quite a selection of different sizes and shapes in the fastener dept. Very inexpensive so no reason to pay big money for one that will fit on an oil filter. Harbor freight has some nice ones too that will fit on the side of the filter. 
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I am not anti-magnet. I use these round ones from Home depot at $1.49 a pair in my transmission, one on the drain pan and one on the filter as per a GM TSB on the 4t65e. Home Depot has quite a selection of different sizes and shapes in the fastener dept. Very inexpensive so no reason to pay big money for one that will fit on an oil filter. Harbor freight has some nice ones too that will fit on the side of the filter.
agreed.
In terms of a functional filtermag replacement Im with you If I didn't already own a grip of filtermags being reused from prior vehicles I would simply use off the shelf neodymium's and just snap them on the housing.
Ill still buy a gold plug, or dimple though for 20 bones or so.
UD
I am not anti-magnet. I use these round ones from Home depot at $1.49 a pair in my transmission, one on the drain pan and one on the filter as per a GM TSB on the 4t65e. Home Depot has quite a selection of different sizes and shapes in the fastener dept. Very inexpensive so no reason to pay big money for one that will fit on an oil filter. Harbor freight has some nice ones too that will fit on the side of the filter.
agreed.
In terms of a functional filtermag replacement Im with you If I didn't already own a grip of filtermags being reused from prior vehicles I would simply use off the shelf neodymium's and just snap them on the housing.
Ill still buy a gold plug, or dimple though for 20 bones or so.
UD
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
There is no " next line" as you suggest in post #4229353 - the line I quoted in full. I also prefer to think of this as dialog between a bunch of guy that all like cars and engines vs criticism.
although reading back up from that line - I probably should have addressed the master question vs a secondary comment about it though
Don't understand this. The post is/was:
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
If magnets on the oil filter were a good thing you would see some reputable company doing it. Would be great to market a "new and improved" filter with all the advertising as to how great our "new magnetic filter" is. Where is it? Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm.
I think you must have been quoting from a quote rather than the original post.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seems to me filter companies sell filters and magnet companies sell magnets, its a valid question as to why hasn't a filter company crossed the line yet.
Someone else mentioned that the suggestion a magnet would help also implies the filter isn't doing a good job.
That was me, and a couple of other people
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Can anyone find any evidence anywhere of a clump coming off a magnet and destroying an engine? Anywhere? Id love to see it if someone can.
Can anyone find any rebuild picts of magnetized clumps
This kind of sudden, catastrophic engine damage wouldn't be expected, and if it did happen probably wouldn't be diagnosed anyway. Likewise rebuild pics of magnetised clumps.
If it were a problem, enhanced wear due to magnetized particles, like "normal" wear, would be happening at the microscopic level, would be gradual, and would be difficult to detect.
Since it is in no ones commercial interest to look for this, chances are it wouldn't be looked for, and so wouldn't be found even if it were there.
I don't have a strong opinion on this, since I don't think strong opinions in the abscence of evidence have much merit.
If I had to guess, I'd say external filter magnets are probably a net gain.
Internal filter magnets like the magna-guard above (and, unfortunately, like the Taiwanese one I have, which I'll probably never use) are probably too risky.
Drain plug magnets probably dont matter much either way.
The best implementation would be a magnetic bypass filter (to keep the flow low) with a large collection and sequestration area, like in the Magnom collector pictured above.
I don't know if this is available.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
I mean a reputable company. Like Fram, ACDelco, Wix etc, not some snake oil internet company trying to sell some magic pill.
Many reputable companies like GM (and multiple others) ship with magnetic drain plugs from the factory.
Why would the manufacturer add this expense if they didn't see the benefit?
UD
That doesn't really work as a criticism of the post you quote, since the next line is "Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm."
OTOH, I'm personally skeptical that they do much good there, and see no reason to assume there's no risk of harm, so you could argue with me if you like.
There is no " next line" as you suggest in post #4229353 - the line I quoted in full. I also prefer to think of this as dialog between a bunch of guy that all like cars and engines vs criticism.
although reading back up from that line - I probably should have addressed the master question vs a secondary comment about it though
Don't understand this. The post is/was:
Originally Posted By: sprite1741
If magnets on the oil filter were a good thing you would see some reputable company doing it. Would be great to market a "new and improved" filter with all the advertising as to how great our "new magnetic filter" is. Where is it? Keep them in the drain pan where they do some good and no risk of harm.
I think you must have been quoting from a quote rather than the original post.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seems to me filter companies sell filters and magnet companies sell magnets, its a valid question as to why hasn't a filter company crossed the line yet.
Someone else mentioned that the suggestion a magnet would help also implies the filter isn't doing a good job.
That was me, and a couple of other people
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Can anyone find any evidence anywhere of a clump coming off a magnet and destroying an engine? Anywhere? Id love to see it if someone can.
Can anyone find any rebuild picts of magnetized clumps
This kind of sudden, catastrophic engine damage wouldn't be expected, and if it did happen probably wouldn't be diagnosed anyway. Likewise rebuild pics of magnetised clumps.
If it were a problem, enhanced wear due to magnetized particles, like "normal" wear, would be happening at the microscopic level, would be gradual, and would be difficult to detect.
Since it is in no ones commercial interest to look for this, chances are it wouldn't be looked for, and so wouldn't be found even if it were there.
I don't have a strong opinion on this, since I don't think strong opinions in the abscence of evidence have much merit.
If I had to guess, I'd say external filter magnets are probably a net gain.
Internal filter magnets like the magna-guard above (and, unfortunately, like the Taiwanese one I have, which I'll probably never use) are probably too risky.
Drain plug magnets probably dont matter much either way.
The best implementation would be a magnetic bypass filter (to keep the flow low) with a large collection and sequestration area, like in the Magnom collector pictured above.
I don't know if this is available.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Ducked
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Lets examine this.
Amsoil sells a completely remote bypass system - a very good one.
Cummins Stratapore Venturi has a stacked disk bypass inside the filter.
Microgreen has a bypass inside the filter.
Pretty sure Baldwin has a stratapour competitor in its lineup with an internal bypass.
UD
I've heard of Amsoil, and at one point enquired of their local agent about the bypass, but it's not available in Taiwan. I'm not sure I'd call then a major filter manufacturer, but then (apparently unlike the poster I was replying to) I don't think that implies they aren't any good.
I hadn't heard of the others. I have heard of internal bypass filters, but I'm not sure how they work and I'm not sure they are comparable. They don't undermine the credibility of the rest of the product line in the same way, and they are disposable.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
This may be why none of the major filter manufacturers (AFAIK) sell bypass filters.
Lets examine this.
Amsoil sells a completely remote bypass system - a very good one.
Cummins Stratapore Venturi has a stacked disk bypass inside the filter.
Microgreen has a bypass inside the filter.
Pretty sure Baldwin has a stratapour competitor in its lineup with an internal bypass.
UD
I've heard of Amsoil, and at one point enquired of their local agent about the bypass, but it's not available in Taiwan. I'm not sure I'd call then a major filter manufacturer, but then (apparently unlike the poster I was replying to) I don't think that implies they aren't any good.
I hadn't heard of the others. I have heard of internal bypass filters, but I'm not sure how they work and I'm not sure they are comparable. They don't undermine the credibility of the rest of the product line in the same way, and they are disposable.
Found this:
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/...ures/972957.pdf
Quite interesting. As well as partly addressing my ignorance of integrated "bypass" filters, there are some points that might be relevant to magnetic filtration.
(a) More than 80% of the material removed by the bypass is organic. This is in diesels, and I'd expect the proportion to be lower for a petrol engine. I would also expect that organic material would cause proportionately less wear than ferrous metals, but even so, its evident that even "perfect" magnetic filtration isn't a complete solution.
(b) If magnetisation of wear particles was a problem, I'd expect it would be most severe where the oil film is thin or absent, and metal to metal contact occurs, i.e. the piston rings and the cams. Figure 3 sort of supports this speculation, since the bypass filter was most effective in reducing wear on the top ring, where I'd think the oil would be thinnest.
(c) The safest use of a bandolier-type oil magnet might be on the outside of the "bypass" portion of such a two-stage filter.
Bet you can't get them for my car though, and I bet they are quite pricy
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/...ures/972957.pdf
Quite interesting. As well as partly addressing my ignorance of integrated "bypass" filters, there are some points that might be relevant to magnetic filtration.
(a) More than 80% of the material removed by the bypass is organic. This is in diesels, and I'd expect the proportion to be lower for a petrol engine. I would also expect that organic material would cause proportionately less wear than ferrous metals, but even so, its evident that even "perfect" magnetic filtration isn't a complete solution.
(b) If magnetisation of wear particles was a problem, I'd expect it would be most severe where the oil film is thin or absent, and metal to metal contact occurs, i.e. the piston rings and the cams. Figure 3 sort of supports this speculation, since the bypass filter was most effective in reducing wear on the top ring, where I'd think the oil would be thinnest.
(c) The safest use of a bandolier-type oil magnet might be on the outside of the "bypass" portion of such a two-stage filter.
Bet you can't get them for my car though, and I bet they are quite pricy
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Amsoil has been around forever and if a fairy big player in many power sports.
Their filters are some of the very best single stages available, and they have great high TBN synthetic oil.
The availability of high end synthetics at wal mart has blunted their edge somewhat but the product quality is first rate.
Their bypass kit requires plumbing but is a mainstay in small commercial rental fleets.
The stacked disk method has real holding capacity as good as a small external but of course not as good as a large external vs the PTFE disk type (microgreen) has very limited capacity and saturates quickly compared to the others, but then again we know autos don't throw out as much crud as diesels.
MG claim you can get 30K of life from a sump over 3 filter changes using this PTFE disk and a synthetic base stage.
An interesting round and round here on BITOG is is the bypasses main benefit is one of enhancing engine life or greatly enhancing OCI, or potentially elimination them altogether in some instances. Or a complete waste of time? The discussion is lively and fun.
If I could run a statapour on my car I would, as it is I flip flop between micro greens and Ultras on my autos, and Wix racing or morose's on the boat engines.
When you say you can't get (or bet I can't) a bandolier magnet for your car, Im not sure what you mean because they are sold by filter diameter vs a specified auto, but for sure there are application they don't work.
I run magnets everywhere because I worry more about what does happen (small particles go round and round without being stopped and accumulate over time ) than what "could theoretically happen" under some set of circumstances I've never encountered in my applications.
My latest toy...Just finished tuning so the finish work gets done next. Interior panels etc.
What car do you have ducked?
UD
Their filters are some of the very best single stages available, and they have great high TBN synthetic oil.
The availability of high end synthetics at wal mart has blunted their edge somewhat but the product quality is first rate.
Their bypass kit requires plumbing but is a mainstay in small commercial rental fleets.
The stacked disk method has real holding capacity as good as a small external but of course not as good as a large external vs the PTFE disk type (microgreen) has very limited capacity and saturates quickly compared to the others, but then again we know autos don't throw out as much crud as diesels.
MG claim you can get 30K of life from a sump over 3 filter changes using this PTFE disk and a synthetic base stage.
An interesting round and round here on BITOG is is the bypasses main benefit is one of enhancing engine life or greatly enhancing OCI, or potentially elimination them altogether in some instances. Or a complete waste of time? The discussion is lively and fun.
If I could run a statapour on my car I would, as it is I flip flop between micro greens and Ultras on my autos, and Wix racing or morose's on the boat engines.
When you say you can't get (or bet I can't) a bandolier magnet for your car, Im not sure what you mean because they are sold by filter diameter vs a specified auto, but for sure there are application they don't work.
I run magnets everywhere because I worry more about what does happen (small particles go round and round without being stopped and accumulate over time ) than what "could theoretically happen" under some set of circumstances I've never encountered in my applications.
My latest toy...Just finished tuning so the finish work gets done next. Interior panels etc.
What car do you have ducked?
UD
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