Magnets on an oil filter

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


Turbulence could be an issue there too.

I don't think this is a daft idea, I just think the benefits of the commonly available implementations are uncertain, and COULD be negative.

This'd probably be safest as part of a bypass filter setup where flow and turbulence are limited.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The other thing in an extended run situation - every gram the magnets hold is one gram of capacity the filter can use for other debris before clogging.


Just how many grams of iron, cobalt or nickel is your engine producing in one OCI?


In mine? Very little but its there.

In older engines Ive cleaned up or marine big blocks wth 30-50 hours on a run- Ive seen quite a bit.

Performance marine engines run without bypasses and actually can and do plug up between OCI's

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


If the stuff is on the magnet to begin with it probably already went through the mill at least once - so the filter isn't holding it up front.

If its between the can and the media worst thing is if it did dislodge it would just get trapped by the media.

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Ducked


Taiwanette asked her uncle, and he gave her an old-stock magnetic oil filter which, AFAICT, seems to still be manufactured right next door in Kaoshiung (Gaoxiong). 150NT.

No idea how effective it is, and I don't think I'll fit it until I implement some means of evaluating that (which may never happen), but even so its slightly intriguing. From the picture on the box, its an in-line magnet like the Magnaguard , but it comes "built-in" to a throw-away spin-on filter.

http://www.hiwtc.com/products/s-n-power-auto-magnetic-oil-filters-1377795-71173.htm

http://www.hiwtc.com/photo/products/3/07/11/71173.jpg

Its suspiciously cheap, of course, but not as cheap, or apparently as light as the purely "conventional" (and allegedly OEM) filter from the uncle, which is 100NT. Both seem very small but I havn't measured the one already on the car.

I don't much like a magnet in that location though because detached magnetised particles would go straight into the bearings.

The leaflet in the box makes some fairly risible claims, (see below) but that doesn't prove its useless.

"THE EFFECTION OF MAGNETIC OIL FILTER

Idling RPM of engine will speed up 20-50 RPM after running 30 minutes and CO, HC will be reduced to 50% simultaneously [This sounds like its warming up, and unrelated to the device.]

After one week idling RPM will increase up about 200 RPM and CO, HC will be reduced to 50% to 90% simultaneously

Temporarily increasing of CO means decreasing of carbon"....etc, etc

More discussion here

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=103308&hilit=magnets


Interesting, but most of the claims made sound like folderol.


UD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


I always buy a magnetic drain plug for my vehicles. Here's a couple photos showing the drain plug off my Tacoma V6 at oil change #2 (1,000 to 5,000 miles), so it was still breaking in. I wiped half of the "black goo" off the end so you can see how thick the layer was on the magnet.

 

[holdorf333]

My magnets seemed to work ok. It's pretty cool to see what kind of stuff is flying around in the oil. I can move to magnet around and the particles all follow.

 

[4WD]

I just use Gold plugs in the oil pan - pretty high grade magnet on those.

Got a MagnaFilter on trans remote spin on - don't think that is seeing turbulent flow and somewhat tucked away.
Toss at some point.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
I just use Gold plugs in the oil pan - pretty high grade magnet on those.

Got a MagnaFilter on trans remote spin on - don't think that is seeing turbulent flow and somewhat tucked away.
Toss at some point.


I use a gold plug and the actual filter mag on my Buick these things have a lot of metal to shed

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Ducked


Taiwanette asked her uncle, and he gave her an old-stock magnetic oil filter which, AFAICT, seems to still be manufactured right next door in Kaoshiung (Gaoxiong). 150NT.

No idea how effective it is, and I don't think I'll fit it until I implement some means of evaluating that (which may never happen), but even so its slightly intriguing. From the picture on the box, its an in-line magnet like the Magnaguard , but it comes "built-in" to a throw-away spin-on filter.

http://www.hiwtc.com/products/s-n-power-auto-magnetic-oil-filters-1377795-71173.htm

http://www.hiwtc.com/photo/products/3/07/11/71173.jpg

Its suspiciously cheap, of course, but not as cheap, or apparently as light as the purely "conventional" (and allegedly OEM) filter from the uncle, which is 100NT. Both seem very small but I havn't measured the one already on the car.

I don't much like a magnet in that location though because detached magnetised particles would go straight into the bearings.

The leaflet in the box makes some fairly risible claims, (see below) but that doesn't prove its useless.

"THE EFFECTION OF MAGNETIC OIL FILTER

Idling RPM of engine will speed up 20-50 RPM after running 30 minutes and CO, HC will be reduced to 50% simultaneously [This sounds like its warming up, and unrelated to the device.]

After one week idling RPM will increase up about 200 RPM and CO, HC will be reduced to 50% to 90% simultaneously

Temporarily increasing of CO means decreasing of carbon"....etc, etc

More discussion here

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=103308&hilit=magnets


Interesting, but most of the claims made sound like folderol.


UD


Yeh, I said that, but I don't pay much attention to claims anyway.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


If the stuff is on the magnet to begin with it probably already went through the mill at least once - so the filter isn't holding it up front.

If its between the can and the media worst thing is if it did dislodge it would just get trapped by the media.

UD


You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit there, assuming you're talking about the "bandolier" style, with magnets around the outside of the filter cannister .

Re "If the stuff is on the magnet to begin with it probably already went through the mill at least once - so the filter isn't holding it up front. " could be, but the flow direction is ouside > in, so it could have got trapped against the side of the filter cannister before going through the filter. If here you're talking about a drain plug magnet, fair enough.

That said, if we accept "it probably already went through the mill at least once" then "if it did dislodge it would just get trapped by the media. " doesn't necessarily follow, since at least some of the ferrous metals "already went through at least once"

It would only follow if magnetic clumping necessarily put it above the filter porosity threshold. I dunno what happens in this situation but it seems possible that turbulence/flow big enough to dislodge particles from the magnetic field can also break up magnetic clumps.

 

[demarpaint]

My only concern with a magnet on the filter is if some of the magnetized ferrous metal should find its way out of the filter. Then it could get circulated back into the system and collect somewhere on ferrous metal and cause some damage. I read about this several years ago, and it made sense.

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

That's why you should use a strong magnet.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


If the stuff is on the magnet to begin with it probably already went through the mill at least once - so the filter isn't holding it up front.

If its between the can and the media worst thing is if it did dislodge it would just get trapped by the media.

UD


You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit there, assuming you're talking about the "bandolier" style, with magnets around the outside of the filter cannister .

Re "If the stuff is on the magnet to begin with it probably already went through the mill at least once - so the filter isn't holding it up front. " could be, but the flow direction is ouside > in, so it could have got trapped against the side of the filter cannister before going through the filter. If here you're talking about a drain plug magnet, fair enough.

That said, if we accept "it probably already went through the mill at least once" then "if it did dislodge it would just get trapped by the media. " doesn't necessarily follow, since at least some of the ferrous metals "already went through at least once"

It would only follow if magnetic clumping necessarily put it above the filter porosity threshold. I dunno what happens in this situation but it seems possible that turbulence/flow big enough to dislodge particles from the magnetic field can also break up magnetic clumps.



In the first line I was talking about debris

In the second line the "it" I was talking about an internal magnet inside the filter being positioned inside in the can so if the magnet itself dislodged it couldn't go into the engine - I should have been clearer on what I meant by "stuff" and "it."

UD

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
That's why you should use a strong magnet.


Strong magnets become weaker with time unfortunately, which was also discussed way back when I looked into it.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
My only concern with a magnet on the filter is if some of the magnetized ferrous metal should find its way out of the filter. Then it could get circulated back into the system and collect somewhere on ferrous metal and cause some damage. I read about this several years ago, and it made sense.



This seems to me to be a contrived issue.

IF you've ever magnetized anything it takes lots of unidirectional strokes across a magnet face of something like a needle to pick up any magnetism.

Any debris that gets close enough to be attracted isn't going to unidirectionally rub itself across the magnet face for long enough to get magnetized - because its stuck to the spot.

Finally after you manage to magnetize something purposefully - its very temporary and very effected by heat.

As for loosening clumps I haven't seen any evidence of that with engines far more powerful flowing far more oil, than the street cars people have there.

Try the can full of bbs test your self and look at how hard these magnets attract - you can't shake them loose purposefully regardless of how vou try.

Be it drain plugs, or filter bands or both - a magnet is one of the few additions that can't hurt and can only help.

UD

 

[sprite1741]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


I was about to say the same thing. Don't do it on the filter.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
My only concern with a magnet on the filter is if some of the magnetized ferrous metal should find its way out of the filter. Then it could get circulated back into the system and collect somewhere on ferrous metal and cause some damage. I read about this several years ago, and it made sense.



This seems to me to be a contrived issue.

IF you've ever magnetized anything it takes lots of unidirectional strokes across a magnet face of something like a needle to pick up any magnetism.

Any debris that gets close enough to be attracted isn't going to unidirectionally rub itself across the magnet face for long enough to get magnetized - because its stuck to the spot.

Finally after you manage to magnetize something purposefully - its very temporary and very effected by heat.

As for loosening clumps I haven't seen any evidence of that with engines far more powerful flowing far more oil, than the street cars people have there.

Try the can full of bbs test your self and look at how hard these magnets attract - you can't shake them loose purposefully regardless of how vou try.

Be it drain plugs, or filter bands or both - a magnet is one of the few additions that can't hurt and can only help.

UD


I was referring to an article I read some time ago, it had some good points for and against the use, so I tossed it other there. I used one for a while, and when it starting losing power I tossed it and didn't bother replacing it. I think a magnetic drain plug is a better choice.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: sprite1741
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Magnets on oil filter is dumb.... like said earlier, turbulence could cause buildup to dislodge..

Best place for a magnet is on the oil drain plug.


I was about to say the same thing. Don't do it on the filter.



Couple things on this.

Magnetic attraction is about proximity to the flux.

With a filter mag "type" magnet proximity is assured where a drain plug has a vastly smaller footprint to the available flow.
Not that a magnetic plug is bad in any way they are not, there does exists the potential if poorly made with cheap magnets that can come off, then they can absolutely be fatal to the engine where an external can never present that problem.

Filter mags testing (remember one test is worth a thousand expert opinions) shows at minimum one full (sone test show 3) ISO code drops, from using one. If not contrived is meaningful.

At the cost of these things its such cheap insurance against a filter tear or failure why not both? I do in my horrifically expensive marine engines.

UD

 

[sprite1741]

That magnet will trap particles on the dirty side of the filter in a big clump. A large volume of flowing oil is concentrated in a small area. If the filter has an internal bypass and it opens, like on a cold start some that material could be pulled right past the filter into the engine. As the magnet saturates, the crud farther away from the magnet is not held on by as much force. Many manufactures including GM install a magnetic drain plug as OEM equipment. The oil settles in the sump and the magnet will hold the particles just fine. Plus easy to see a problem during oil change. Put the magnet on the filter at your own risk. The bad possibility outweighs the good.

 

[DBMaster]

I think I'll make a very uncharacteristic statement for BITOG. There have been some good points made in this thread. I choose not to use magnets of any type - without giving anyone a hard time for their choice.