M1,maybe is not fully synthetic.

[bookworm]

I'm new ti here!

I provide some infomation from exxonmobil website.

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspx

These are Material Safety Data Sheets,including all Mobil products.

Follow me...

In the page,at the Country of use line, you select Japan,and the second line,you input 1,then search.

The search result is some report, you can click on Mobil 1 0w-40, or any other product.

These reports leak some infomation about Mobil 1's formula,at least,part of its ingredient. And the report date is very new.

Supposed the formula of M1 around the world is the same, then we can get the conclusion,M1 is not fully synthetic.

I also think the original M1 was full of PAO, but after the famous lawsuit with Castrol, Mobil could not resist the lure of lower cost and higher profit, changed M1 formula possibly.

 

[Peter_Pan]

It's a known fact (at least on this board) that Mobil oils have been reformulated (downgraded).

 

[Mark888]

That information was discussed in detail on this thread not too long ago:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1394408&fpart=1

Mobil 1 sold in US and Japan is definitely not 100% PAO, but it probably has more PAO than many other "synthetics" sold in the US.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Wonder what the pao-dino ratio their 15W50 silver cap is?

 

[bookworm]

Thanks for your relpy.

Some data from that official website:

0w-40
Name Concentration*
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - 5%
KEROSENE 0.1-1 %weight
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED 50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil 5-10 %weight


5w-40
Name Concentration*
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - 5%
Mineral Oil 30-40 %weight

5w-30
Name Concentration*
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - 5%
Mineral Oil 40-50 %weight

10w-30
Name Concentration*
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - 5%
ZINC DITHIOPHOSPHATE < 2.5%
Mineral Oil 50-60 %weight

 

[d00df00d]

Now that's interesting. In for the discussion.

 

[opposite_locker]

I thought the 0w40 was 100% PAO, per the Mobil Jp site

 

[crinkles]

not using M1 again, bloody ripoff down here! for what's in it! I'd rather go with amsoil if i were to spend that kind of money

 

[bookworm]

In fact,I am not sure whether I should use M1.

But I think the data is true.

In china,people are driving the most expensive cars in the world.
For example, Honda accord 2.4 is over $30000, but using the worst old engins in the world. Other brands are like this.

And the oil and gasoline are expensive too, like M1 0W-40, Mobile using gold colour bucket, so call it Gold M1, its price is about $73.5 per bucket, 4 liters.

 

[rclint]

bookworm

That is interesting on cost, Honda Accords sell for around the same price in the US for the EX model, and I'm not sure the translation came through correct, but the Honda 2.4 engine may be one of the best engines in the world as far as fuel economy, longevity, with very little maintenance. I also wonder what is the price of gas in China, and a real word of the middle class economy as well ?

 

[webfors]

Interesting info on the compositions listed above.

I'm always amazed at how you can communicate/discuss with people from all over the world. Here's to you bookworm:

I am also surprised at the costs you mentioned for cars and oil. Seems outrageous imho.

 

[bookworm]

Originally Posted By: rclint
bookworm

That is interesting on cost, Honda Accords sell for around the same price in the US for the EX model, and I'm not sure the translation came through correct, but the Honda 2.4 engine may be one of the best engines in the world as far as fuel economy, longevity, with very little maintenance. I also wonder what is the price of gas in China, and a real word of the middle class economy as well ?


Ha，the price of gas in China is about $0.735/liter，and the price is dropped down a little with International Crude price.
But the oil price is still staying at the peak of the Crude Oil Price mountain, it did not keep up with the trend of Crude Oil Price.

 

[d00df00d]

I find it amusing that people in the USA are swearing off Mobil 1 based on spec sheets for Japanese products.

 

[bepperb]

What good is complaining about how much M1 is group 3, when we don't have anything to compare it to? For all I know, that's double the PAO of PP or SynPower.

The 2.4 Accord for 30,000 isn't much more than here, at ~20-26,000. And the North American Accord comes with a 2.0 in many parts of the world. Or do you get the European Accord where the 2.4 is the largest engine offered anywhere(excluding the v6 TSX) and 30,000 seems about right in line with everyone else?

FWIW, perhaps I'm a bit biased owning a K24, but it's good fuel economy and low maitenance costs would work especially well in an area with expensive gas (and little crude oil reserves) and expensive maitenance costs (over 15 $ a quart!!!). In your mind, is the 3.5 Liter V6 the best Accord engine in the world? Or the 205hp K24 in the TSX/Accord Type R?

 

[RI_RS4]

The solution to this seems obvious to me. If you "need" a high quality oil and PAO is important to you, go with Amsoil, since they do not have to resort to reformulating in order to correct a supply problem due to Katrina. Amsoil just sucks it up and increases cost to reflect the pricing of the base oil on the market.


http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001245322.cfm?x=b4MwkBc,b16hwRCn,w

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001239508.cfm

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/viewdoc....+157+174+&u=lng

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/viewdoc.cfm?DocId=189&HitCount=6&hits=3+1f+54+7e+b0+cc+&u=lng

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/viewdoc.cfm?DocId=111&HitCount=5&hits=4d+55+e8+fa+128+&u=lng

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/viewdoc.cfm?DocId=206&HitCount=3&hits=2c+96+c6+&u=lng

 

[tig1]

RI RS4,
Thanks for the info. These sites clearly show all M1 oils have at least some of their base oil with PAO stock. I have seen on other forums as well as on BITOG that some M1 oils were GRP3 only. As I have said before a XM tech told me in December that all M1 oils are Grp4. FWIW

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: tig1
RI RS4,
Thanks for the info. These sites clearly show all M1 oils have at least some of their base oil with PAO stock. I have seen on other forums as well as on BITOG that some M1 oils were GRP3 only. As I have said before a XM tech told me in December that all M1 oils are Grp4. FWIW

The FAQ at the Mobil 1 USA website says that all Mobil 1 oils have PAO stock. But they avoid the question of whether it is 100% PAO (not counting additives), so it is reasonable to assume they are not 100% PAO for oils sold in the USA (which is the website FAQ I looked at).

Mobil 1 says their EP oil has 50% more SuperSyn than regular M1. Not sure if SuperSyn is their code word for PAO stock or something else. If SuperSyn is primarily PAO, then neither regular M1 or M1 EP can be 100% PAO, because if one has 50% more than the other, neither can have 100%.

As noted, the Japan MSDS give some clues as to how much PAO M1 may have, since they are required to disclose the percentage of mineral oil (which is this case is probably Group III hydro-cracked).

Some other vendor websites I have seen (like Valvoline) don't claim to have any PAO in the their synthetics (based on a direct question regarding that issue in their FAQ).

Amsoil clearly distinguishes the oils that are primarily PAO based and those that are not.

 

[bookworm]

Originally Posted By: rclint
bookworm

That is interesting on cost, Honda Accords sell for around the same price in the US for the EX model, and I'm not sure the translation came through correct, but the Honda 2.4 engine may be one of the best engines in the world as far as fuel economy, longevity, with very little maintenance. I also wonder what is the price of gas in China, and a real word of the middle class economy as well ?


I take Honda 2.4 engine as an example maybe is a mistake.
Car engins in China is the next subject to be discussed.

Here we discuss car price firstly.

I visit some webs to provide following data.

BENZ 350L fully imported RMB1448000 about $213,000
BENTLY GT speed fully imported RMB4380000 about $644,000
BMW 2009 750Li fully imported RMB1960000 about $288,000

Of course, price of these luxury types cars is very high.

China has been regarded as the most car market now，because at here cars are expensive but many people want to buy a car. And a news I read days ago said that in January and February 2009 Sales Volume of autocars has overrided US,and becomed to No.1 automoble market.

In China, many international car manufatures have build joint venture factories to produce all kind brands of cars, as VW, PSA from France,ford, GM, toyato,Honda,nissan, hyundai, kia, Kreisler,Mazda,Volvo,BMW etc. Among those brands, VW is the most succesful. VW began to produce santana from 1986, but till today ,the car type is still producing,and not changing its engine,AFE(? I'm not sure).

When a new car type was introduced into China，it was localized，such as removing some equipment,changing engins,so so.
But the price is not cut down.

A satisfactory change is that some brands have changed their strategy in China，they introduce a new type of car synchronous around the world，brands from Japan do this well. But Ford is always late.

Cars made locally is not cheap too, especially German brands，a example, audi A6L 4.2 FSI is about $125,000.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I find it amusing that people in the USA are swearing off Mobil 1 based on spec sheets for Japanese products.


I agree, it is amazing how one thing is posted and people take it as the truth or that what is posted is what it is like everywhere.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I find it amusing that people in the USA are swearing off Mobil 1 based on spec sheets for Japanese products.


I agree, it is amazing how one thing is posted and people take it as the truth or that what is posted is what it is like everywhere.


with mobil not being forthcoming with disseminating information, i can see how people would do that. every bit of information whether wrong or right will be pounced on, because there are so little.